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Author Topic: NORTH BY NORTHWEST VistaVision?
Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-02-2002 03:44 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So now I am really puzzled. We played NORTH BY NORTHWEST in the park last night (record crowd well over 4000). Thank you Ted Turner for striking this print when you had the library, which, aside from dirt that Film-Guard will deal with in short order and the usual accordian splices at the leader joints, it was a very nice 1997 print.

But here's the delemma: this was a VistaVision picture, correct? even though it wasn't Paramount but MGM. So that should mean that the 35mm standard print would be a hard-matted to 1.85, correct? Well, this print was a full frame, Academy aperture. So how do they get a 1.37 Academy image from a VistaVision original negative? Are they cropping the sides? And if that is the case, then I should have run it in 1.37, otherwise I would be cropping a portion of the original image, top and bottom resulting in not only loosing what was cropped from the width but cropping the top/bottom as well -- talk about looking through a keyhole! What am I missing here? Why would they print this as a 1.37 Academy frame? I ran it in 1.66 and it looked OK, but at times the heads were being shaved by the top of the frame. Then there was one scene where Cary Grant and two other guys are sitting in the back seat of a car and both guys on either side of him were only half visible the frame edge cutting them right in half; I can't believe the shot was purposely composed that way. Seems to me all three would have been fully visible in the VV version.

We lost power to the booth during the show. A breaker tripped either because of the humidity or the heat or both, or it was just faulty --it certainly wasn't because of anything in the booth -- it is a 20A circuit feeds only a powerstrip with a 15a breaker in it and the 15A didn't trip. I though I was going to loose the bulb because naturally the fan stopped also. But they had a guy sitting right by the breaker and he threw it within a minute; the lamp's auto-strike lit it as soon as the power came back on. I had a stage hand sit next to the breaker box for the rest of the show. It tripped a second time, but he had it back on in 10 seconds. This makes me think it might be wise to put an aux fan in the lamphouse smokestack powered by a separate circuit so that if the lamphouse breaker trips, the bulb will still get air-flow.

The Brooklyn audience was very good about it (they can be very vocal if they choose). No cat-calls or whistling, even though the second break was in the last reel's fairly suspenseful part. I must say, just another reason why the park is a great venue to work.

Frank

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 08-02-2002 04:02 PM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank, you are correct. North by Northwest was filmed in VistaVision as Alfred Hitchcock was based at Paramount at the time.

The 35mm print you ran appears to be like the one the Film Forum ran in the mid-90s.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2002 04:07 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The VV camera apperture was allmost 1.37:1 and prints were struck full height with the recomended Projector Apperture between 1.66 and 2:1
Info from Paramount is on Marty wide screen museem site
Originally there was edge marks for framing provided

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-02-2002 04:20 PM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This probably won't help at all, but according to the NORTH BY NORTHWEST laserdisc, the correct aspect ratio for the film is 1.67:1

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-02-2002 06:24 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, I was mistakenly thinking that the original VV neg was wider, maybe because I always thought VV was Paramounts answer to Fox's CinemaScope. So maybe that shot that looked like a badly cropped scope frame was something Hitchcock did purposely.

BTW, the only two plastic split reels among the bent metal shipping reels in NBN, *both* arrived in pieces.

Frank

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-02-2002 06:25 PM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello, Frank
Alfred Hitchkok hated projectionists.

The Vista Vision print you have is made to show in 1:66. Look closely at the first 15 seconds of each reel. In the upper right corner you will see a funny F icon. This is the FRAMING CUE which was printed there to assist the projectionist in framing the image properly.

If you show these in 1:37 you will probably see some microphones.

Look at the print of VERTIGO and see what Alfred did during each changeover. I covered the port window except for the very right top corner. Two can play at that game.

KEN

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2002 06:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The F icon shows both 1.66 and I believe 1.85 depending on the stroke of the F used

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-02-2002 07:18 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Althought the Vistavision image area has an aspect of 1.5:1, I read somewhere that fairly significant cropping was intended. This being the case, it may be likely that the center of the full 1.5:1 camera aperture area may have been transferred to the 1.37:1 area of the 4-perf 35mm print, with intention to crop to normal flat from there.

I have a diagram somewhere. Let me see if I can dig it up.

Ahh.... Here is is: I put in in my public_html directory for y'all:
VistaVision Diagram GIF Image

Note: This image is rather large in size (1536x1322), but is only 56KB in size, since it's only 2-color. Also, I don't know where I got the image. If anyone recognizes it, let me know where it came from.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2002 07:52 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Remember that the lazy 8 horizontal release prints also had an optical soundtrack on them as well using up some of the realestate

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Fred Georges
Master Film Handler

Posts: 257
From: Lombard, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-02-2002 11:01 PM      Profile for Fred Georges   Email Fred Georges   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've run N.B.N.W numerous times including the Turner prints struck in the eighties. I've tried it both at 1:66 & 1:85. What convinced me to do all future shows 1:85 is the chase on Mt.Rushmore in the final reel. Hitch goes to a long shot on the mountain and in any ratio greater then 1:85 the top of the Camera's matte box or a barn door is clearly seen. This shot was visable in all the different prints I've shown over the years but, I've got to say I think it looks less claustrophobic 1:66.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-03-2002 12:09 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone ever see a horizontal print of this film???
Mark

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 08-03-2002 12:18 AM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While the original Vistavision frame was 1.5, ONE type of Vistavision print spec called for a full 1.37 frame for showing to non wide -screen venues and eventually for TV. There has been speculation this has happened with North By Northest and a mix-up in print formats occured along the way to the letterboxed version used in the original laserdisc transfers.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-03-2002 05:05 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While we're on the subject of aspect ratios for VV titles, can anyone tell me what the definitive ratio is for The Searchers? The last time I showed it in a cinema the cans said 1:1.66, which was how I showed it and it looked right to me. My DVD, however, contains two versions: one in 1:1.85 and the other in Academy, the latter appearing to have been horizontally panned and scanned from the 1:1.85 version. Too many heads and hats look chopped off in 1:1.85 for my liking, and the opening titles are very tight.

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James Robertson
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 08-03-2002 05:17 AM      Profile for James Robertson   Email James Robertson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I was an apprentice in the 60's in the heyday of Vistavision all
our prints(including North by Northwest and The Searchers) were screened 1.66-1 and they looked great in this ratio.

Jim

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James Robertson
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 08-03-2002 05:40 AM      Profile for James Robertson   Email James Robertson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Addendum,

I'm getting senile! Time scale from mid 'fifties for heyday of VV including the two films mentioned which I screened about 1956.

Jim

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