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Author Topic: Which is the best/worst projector?
Joe Redifer
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 01:46 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
The best projector that I have used so far is a CENTURY SA that was at the
worst theatre I have ever worked in, ironically. The image was steady and it was
really reliable....no problems. And they weren't in the best shape a projector could
be in, either. The sprockets are small, but it didn't seem to harm the film of cause
any problems.

The worst projector EVER is the Christie 35mm. It was designed to be
"maitenence free" but in reality requires more maintenence than any other
projector that I have ever seen. First off are the belts. They don't last too long and
are finicky and unreliable. They also shed immensely and the shutter belt loves to
break. perfect belt tension is always difficult to achieve and varies from projector
to projector. Then there is the Ultramittent which really isn't very ultra at all. The
picture is never steady and is always moving around somehow, even with a brand
new intermittent. They can also become so noisy that you can hear them chattering
away inside the auditorium during the movie. Chrsitie says this is "Normal and no
cause for concern". Yeah right!

Then there is the lens turret. This also helps with the image unsteadiness. Simply
opening and closing the lens turret to thread can knock the lenses out of alignment,
and when the movie starts the image is way too high or low. Only cycling a lens
change or messing with the manual toggle is this fixed. Of course, let's not forget
the Christie Dolby Digital basement reader. It is pure crap. It would work fine if
the projector itself did not cause so much vibration!!! Christie will not admit that
this is a problem, just that they require a bit more tweeking. I have also been told
by Christie that the LED's drift over time, and I must constantly check and
increase their voltage. What good are LEDs if they drift down like exciter bulbs? I
think Christie is just using this as a lame excuse to cover up the real problem with
their basement reader--the projector itself and it's poor design! Christie must have
the worst designers in the world!

For all of the troubled projectionists out there cursed with Christie P35GP
projectors and basement readers, there is a fix for the vibration problem, but it is
not too pretty. Fortunately, it is extremely simple. Just get a bunch of napkins.
Thread the film normally with just 1 perf of tenion on the sound drum. Now take
the napkins and fold them up and tape them so that they remain folded. They must
be pretty thick---thick enough to pad the arms of the sound drum. Now take 1
foled napkin an slide it between the lower arm of the sound drum and the reader.
Do the same with another folded napkin. This way the arms are padded from the
vibration and the show should run perfectly provided that everything else is set up
correctly. You may see some slack in the film going into the sound drum, but that
is OK. Maybe all Christie projectors from now on should ship with a box of
napkins.

What is your favorite/least favorite projector?

Brad Miller
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 01:47 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I would say the Century JJ is the best projector, but then it is virtually the
same machine as the SA...except it runs 70mm.

The worst? Oh there are so many...only one??? Ballantyne comes to mind. But
then so does the early Simplex units.

Currently there are four main projectors on the market to choose from. Century,
Simplex, Christie, Cinemecannica. Obviously there are others, but these are the
four you will see everywhere. If you are speaking "worst for all time" then I am
really going to have to think about that! But if you are speaking "worst currently
readily available" then may I strongly agree with you on your views toward the
Christie machine.

This machine has such great intentions and could've been a fantastic piece of
machinery. Unfortunately, it is a piece of...

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Christie...just their projectors. Christie
makes the best platters and the best projectors money can buy! Unfortunately,
they must've run out of money in the R & D stage when they were designing the
P35GP.

My biggest beef with the Christie is the shaky image. These units shake so bad, it
actually blurs the image on screen. Is it the gate/trap design? Perhaps it is the
physical vibrations of the machine itself. Who knows? Christie sure doesn't. And
no, changing the gate bands does not help.

My other big beef is the constant maintenance these machines require. No matter
how good a deal the initial cost is, you will spend far more money on the upkeep
than if you went all out for a Century JJ in the first place.

If you look at the new theaters being built today, you will typically see an "all
Strong package" or an "all Christie package." I've come to the conclusion that
Christie must throw in these projectors free with the purchase of the lamphouse
and platter. After all, they'll make their money back on parts.

And that's my two cents worth.

Brad Miller
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 01:48 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
Correction to my previous post...

The 5th paragraph should read "Christie makes the best platters and lamphouses
money can buy."

Crediting them to making the best projectors money can buy was a tremendous
error.

Scott Norwood
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 01:49 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
The only equipment that I've worked with in an actual theatre (the only theatre I've
worked in...) has been Century SA's, serial numbers 150 and 151. I send some
photos for Brad's picture gallery, for those who care. These are beautiful
machines and are incredibly reliable and easy to work on and maintain, especially
for someone who came from working with tiny 16mm equipment. I have an
ancient Super Simplex at home (in about 200 pieces) which looks like it'll be fine
for home use but isn't anywhere near as refined and well made as the Centurys. I
had an RCA Model 100 35mm head that looked like a nice machine, but I gave it
away because of poor parts availability (Simplex parts are relatively easy to
get...forget about getting RCA parts). Here's a question: what's everyone's
favorite 16mm projector? I've worked with most of them: for portable classroom
machines, the Elmo 16CL (current model) is great, as are the older B&H 300
series and the B&H JAN machines (good luck finding parts, though). The current
Eikis are decent, too, but aren't so great on damaged film. Kodak Pageants are
OK, but feel flimsy and are hard to clean...the easy-to-focus soundhead is nice,
but the sound quality is generally not so great, even on the later models with
transistor amps. I have a Graflex (the older model 920 with the heavy metal
construction) at home, which is decent but not great...the gate pressure control is
nice but sound quality leaves a lot to be desired. I know people who love the
Pageants, though. I also know someone who really likes the Bauer 16mm, but had
to junk his because of poor parts availibility. The Bauer is the only autoload
machine that I've ever seen that was decent, though. For 16mm theatre
projectors, I've only really worked with the Eiki EX-6100's. These give beautiful
pictures, but aren't much fun to work with due to poor design and a stupid
electronic control system (probably won't be too hard to replace with mechanical
controls, though). The worst part about these is the badly designed changeover
(changes after two seconds); the best part is the sound...these are by far the
best-sounding 16mm projectors that I've ever used. The Eastman 25s look great,
but I haven't used them extensively. Some people like the Elmo xenon models or
the Norelco one. Thoughts? Someday I want to run Eastman 25s with carbon
arcs (which I've never run and would very much like to try)!

Mark Ogden
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 01:49 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
Best projector? Gotta be the Norelco AA 2 35/70. Rock solid, even after 40 or
so years. If you head out to LA you see that these are still rolling in all the major
theaters in town, including all of Mann's Westwood screens (even the Village,
where most of Hollywood's big premieres happen.) All three screens at the
Chinese are still on them, and the projector on the #3 screen is one of the original
Todd-AO machines! Mann's staff keep these beauties rolling flawlessly.

Joe Redifer
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 01:50 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I agree the Norelco AA2 is great...you have NO EXCUSE for threading it
out of frame (like anyone does that anyway...right?) and in 70mm the picture
looks painted on the screen. They are a bit big and bulky, but they have proven
their worth. It's a shame they do not make them anymore (or replacement parts,
either). In 35mm they are not quite as goo from my experience, however. I have
used a Century JJ only once or twice, but it seems like a good all around
projector for both formats.

Also, thank you for complimenting Mann Theatres. I do not work for the Chinese
in Cali, but it is good to hear praise where praise is due.

Ken Layton
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 02:39 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
35MM Best Projectors:
Brenkert BX-80, BX-100
Simplex X-L
Century C and SA
Motiograph AA
Devry 12000 series
Holmes Type 8 Portable

35MM Worst Projectors:
Ballantyne Pro-35 (couldn't project a steady picture or hold focus if life depended
on it)
Christie Gearless (should be called WORTHLESS)

16mm Best Projectors:
B&H 567 Arc Lamp with easy CHANGEOVER SYSTEM
B&H JAN Xenon Conversion
B&H 140 Carbon Arc
RCA Port-o-Arc
Eastman model 25

16mm Worst Projectors:
Graflex 16 (muddy sound)
Eiki (too flimsy and picture unsteady)
Ampro (too heavy!)

Brad Miller
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 02:39 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
Ken,

You forgot Norelco AA2 on the "Best" projector list.

Christie "Worthless." I like that! I think I'll paint that on my Christies I work
with!!!

Gordon McLeod
unregistered




 - posted 05-30-1999 02:40 AM            Edit/Delete Post 
The best straight 35mm only projector is the MotioGraph AAA
The best 35/70 is either the Westrex 5000 or the Norleco AA2
The worst 35mm projector is the shakemecanica V5 or the Tokiwa portables
I don't mind the pro35 as the ones I service have steady pictures on about 45'
screens. The do have a extra adjustment screw for gate tension that can be
critical.
The worst 35/70mm is the Crown Imperial which is a BX100 on steroids

David Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 54
From: Melbourne Vict Australia
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-30-1999 03:20 AM      Profile for David Johnson   Email David Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder who is servicing your "Christie" projectors? I would suggest that you shoot him and find someone else. I have installed around 80+ and find them to have the best qualiity picture you can get, they are rock steady and if they are in front of a Christie consol you will have edge to edge focus and perfect illumination. It is true to say that they are not maintinance free, and require a lot more maintinance than most projectors. The basment readers still have some problems but most are caused with Kodaks 2383 film stock, I was running one today with an old print of "Miricale on 34th street", the print was rooted but it remained at a constant 6 on the DA20, but this was an old print not on 2383 stock.
David

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-30-1999 03:15 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow! I think you get the prize for bringing the oldest topic (6 months to the day) back to the top of the forum. (This thread was even before the new forum program was implemented.)

Most of the problems people seem to have had with the Christie projectors was in fact that exhaust blower in their lamphouse. After Sean James of Christie recommended I remove them, 90% of my problems went away and soon after mentioning that on the forum, I got many emails from people who did the same and most of their problems were gone as well.

I will however stand behind my Centurys as the best all around projector. Norelcos and Simplexes are also excellent, but Norelcos are too damn big and too expensive to service (in that occasional instance when they need it) and Simplexes have that roller in the soundhead which embedds dirt into the emulsion and are generally rougher on film. For size, cost, ease and cost of maintenance and frequency of maintenance required...the Century keeps winning out. But that's another thread.

As to the Christie lamps and platters...they can NOT be beat in my opinion.

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-30-1999 03:22 PM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Waitasec... how is an exhaust blower in the lamphouse affecting the projector's performance?!

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Nicholas McRobert
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-30-1999 06:30 PM      Profile for Nicholas McRobert   Email Nicholas McRobert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Having worked with only a few types of projector, I have come to the conclusion that Kinoton are definitely my favorite out of the bunch.... At the moment, I work with 10 FP20's. These are over 6 years old and are still run like new. As far as maintenance goes, there is very little apart from basic stuff. They are extremely easy to thread, VERY kind to film (even the chopped up, damaged festival prints that we get from all corners of the globe) and the new SRD reader soundheads are an excellent conversion add-on.

From what I have seen of Christie projectors, my opinion is that they are the Spawn of Satan....sent only to reap havoc and destruction on our industry. But then, they are cheap, and that's what the big chains want (especially American ones at that)....spend $$$$'s on rocking chairs/big popcorn machines and pennies on projection gear. Most cinemas here in the UK seem to favor Kinoton, Cinemecannica and Strong/Century machines. Christie aren't really up there.....yet! (thank God!)

Nicholas

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-30-1999 06:44 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure that Kinotons are nice, but I will also point out that the Century machines that I have worked with (C's and SA's) were all at least 30+ years old. They ran like new--nice, steady picture; quiet intermittents; etc. And I will assure everyone that these machines did not benefit from heavy preventive maintenance...one pair of machines (the C's) still had the original carbon-arc lamphouses (Peerless) which also ran beautifully (also, with limited maintenance).

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Nicholas McRobert
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-30-1999 06:56 PM      Profile for Nicholas McRobert   Email Nicholas McRobert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many of the older UK theaters, (especially the ABC Chain) still use original FP20's (then made by Philip's) from the early 1960's. Any of these that I have seen are pretty much as you describe your Century Machines. They are probably one of the most common machines available here from that period that *haven't* been broken down for spare parts or been made redundant (and they are still quite pricey when purchased 2nd hand). German engineering is amongst the best in the world, and this is extremely obvious when you use these machines. I guess it's like the best-built cars....mostly German and Italian.

Nicholas.

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