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Author Topic: Is it because it's zebra tape?
Carl Welles
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Cali
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-11-1999 11:53 PM      Profile for Carl Welles   Email Carl Welles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I occasionally get a print from a screening and the leaders are put back on with that yellow striped zebra tape. I can peel off the clear tape and even the solid yellow tape, but never the zebra tape. I hate cutting frames off. Is the zebra tape made out of some kind of permanent adhesive and is this due to the stripes in some way?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-11-1999 11:57 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Depends on the brand of zebra tape. If it is Neumade, it seems to peel off just as easilly as the clear stuff. Any other brand seems to leave residue and even yellow junk on the film that must be washed off with FilmGuard.

What I hate is when people use zebra tape and splice with the yellow line across the middle of the frame! It looks horrible onscreen! People usually splice like this in the middle of the reel.

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-12-1999 05:59 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This seems like the most appropriate topic on which to post this message.

This past weekend, I had a service call to check on a problem of "sound drop-outs". I had not previously met this projectionist. He informed me, in a conspiratorious manner, that he was a bit of a "perfectionist" (always a dangerous thing to admit).

I smiled and did what I usually do to judge the attitude of the projectionist - I inspected (inconspicuously, of course) the booth. I was impressed. The lenses and port-holes were clean (not always found nowadays), the equipment was immaculate and the booth could rival the cleanliness and organization of a hospital operating room. Not a single frame of film on the floor.

I began to think that this guy was right. He was one of the few that really give a damn. (Most of the rest are on this Forum).
He showed me a flourescent light he had mounted on the make-up table to be able to see the platter for make-up and break-down during low-light (performance) conditions.

I took a seat (on my toolbox) beside the projector in which the sound problems had been reported. It was at the end of the first reel that I noticed it. A splice - using opaque tape. Same thing for all the reel splices.

When I brought this up to the projectionist he replied "Ah, c'mon, it's no big deal. We do so much make-up and break-down that we need this tape" (He had to buy it from a local independant supplier - the chain does not stock it). "Besides, he added, its only half of one twenty-fourth of a second. Who's gonna see it?"

Not sure I agree. Your comments please?

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-12-1999 06:18 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not a perfectionist.

I like Zebra tape to see where I made a splice I need to break later. I usually use clear tape to repair a film break. Sometimes in the heat of the moment you make a mistake.

With the Zebra tape I only use the lines on the outside of the frame. I let the frame line of the tape go to waste.

When the theatre I worked at opened, yellow opaque tape was part of the start kit. When Joe left that theatre 6 years later, the yellow tape was still in the film cabinet, unused. I will never use that tape! I can see it go by. I can hear it go by. I'll bet I could smell it go by.

I hate that it leaves sticky yellow gunk on the film after you peel it off.

I don't know if I would build up a print with the ultrasonic splices like Brad does but if you can see it on the screen; don’t put it on the film!

Well, I guess that’s close enough for government work.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-12-1999 07:59 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My current theatre came with lots of rolls of opaque tape as part of the package. The techs said it was for trailer work. I don't think so. Like Greenwood, I let it sit in the cabinet. It's still there. Anyone want it? $500 a sleeve! Mint condition! Ha!

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-12-1999 08:44 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We use the Nuemade tape. It seems pretty good.
I see no use for the opaque tape- blocks too much. But I would use the zebra tape. As far as I know, the zebra tape (when properly applied in the center) blocks about 0.150" of the entire film across the frameline, and about one frame height (0.750") on the sides. This means two blocks of SR-D data, one block of DTS sync data, and one frame of SDDS - on both sides. If I read the specs correctly, all three digital systems can recover (play from cache or recreate) that much data.
Analog will make a little blip, but not noticable.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-12-1999 09:29 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe--when I started working at one place, they had a pile of white opaque tape, too. Management was really cheap, which is why I threw that tape in the trash as soon as no one else was looking. If I hadn't done that, they might have used it, rather than ordering clear tape. As it was, I bought a ton of clear Neumade tape with my own money just so that I could get rid of the white stuff. I don't understand how anyone could stand the white tape...not only does it show up on screen and "pop" the soundtrack, but it also was very difficult to peel cleanly. At least the all-yellow tape that I've seen will peel well.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 02:36 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is up with that white tape, anyway? Especially the kind with 4 dots on it that come on the prints sometimes from the labs. Do any theatres splice with this stuff? What are the purpose of the 4 dots? This has to be the worst tape I have ever encountered.

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Erika Hellgren
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 02:56 PM      Profile for Erika Hellgren   Email Erika Hellgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to comment on Rick's story. I can't stand people who say they are a perfectionist, but then ever use the comment "What difference does it make?". That right there negates the whole idea of being a perfectionist. I once worked with a projectionist (*snicker*, sorry, it's hard to use that word to describe this guy), who claimed to be anal (not something I would brag about) about the booth. But as I got to know this guy, I must have heard him say "What difference does it make" about a thousand times. One thing he never understood was why I took such good care of used trailers. "They're just trailers!" he would say. Yeah, they're just the first impression a customer is going to have of our presentation!
I don't know if I'd call myself a perfectionist, but I have to say that EVERYTHING matters to me. If anyone mentions something that I do that distracts from the presentation, I will change my routine. In fact (to keep this post on topic) I have considered using clear tape to join my reels, and just chucking that terrible zebra tape that leaves the yellow residue when you peel it off. I just need to get the cooperation of my co-workers first

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-13-1999 03:25 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe --- could you send me a sample of some of the splices with the "four dots"? I suspect they are process machine splices where two 6mm diameter holes have been punched in each of the two ends of film being spliced. The holes are there so the tape on each side of the splice can adhere directly to the tape on the other side, making a very reliable (but ugly) splice that will not come apart in a high speed, high temperature processing machine. The labs are usually pretty good in removing these splices and remaking them with an ultrasonic splicer or clear tape during inspection and "positive assembly", but some do get through the system. When you find them, they should of course be remade properly.

------------------
John Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester, NY 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243


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Chris Erwin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 195
From: Olive Hill,KY
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-13-1999 06:15 PM      Profile for Chris Erwin   Email Chris Erwin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that the zebra tape is terrible. I take the time to "peel and save" instead of "cut and toss" when it comes to those frames at the end of the reels. It adds up to wasted footage. Everybody has to cut costs sometimes,but please,not on good splice tape. An old pro once told me,good splices not only hold your film together,but also your reputation as a good projectionist!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 07:57 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John, Joe is definitely explaining those processing splices. I see it ALL THE TIME in prints. However, I've never paid too much attention as to what lab they are coming from. I will start checking for patterns.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 09:16 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ummm yeah, what Brad said!

Anyway John, I'll send you a splice when I find another one, but it sounds like we're talking about the same thing.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-14-1999 08:14 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the tape splice was made by the lab prior to processing the print, there will be undeveloped emulsion (no image, purple color) under the splice. As I noted, the labs are pretty good in removing these necessary but ugly splices during inspection and "positive assembly", but some do get out.

The other commonly used pre-process lab splice is an ultrasonic splice, which will have some discoloration immediately around the splice, and unfortunately, has only slightly better than one chance in four of being on the frameline. (Remember, these splices are made under darkroom conditions before the image is actually printed on the film). If an ultrasonic splice is on the frameline, it can usually be left in the print, as they are quite reliable. Reinforce it with one layer of clear splicing tape if in doubt. If the splice is not on the frameline, remove it and remake it with clear tape.

------------------
John Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester, NY 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-14-1999 03:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

I bought an ultrasonic splicer from "Metric Splicer" (there's a link on the site) and it is FANTASTIC! It is MUCH better than the splices being used at the labs. (I should note here I cannot stand the 8 perf lab tape splices as they are horribly made.) What kind of ultrasonic splicers are the labs using that make these horrible splices? Perhaps they should switch to the Metric unit? Also, I've never had a splice break and reinforcing it with a tape splice will only make it extra thick which will cause the picture to jump in the gate as well as in most instances being able to visually see the edges of the tape project onto the screen. I'm not for that. Everything must be perfect.

Which leads me to a Kodak recommendation. In the old days, film stocks used to have little marks every 4 perfs on the film's edge. This would make it extremely easy for the labs to make their splices on the frame line. Why oh why was this practice stopped??? Can it be reinstated??? It was also GREAT for credits and such. Even if the frame lines weren't printed in accordance to the marks, if you knew the frame lines was 1 perf to the left of the mark, making a splice on a dark reel change or in credits was effortless. And do I even need to mention how nice it would make building up trailers?

So how about it? Who would be in charge of making such a decision? I would really like to see this back.


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