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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » LED versus Exciter bulbs (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: LED versus Exciter bulbs
Erick Ojeda
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Vineland, NJ
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 11-17-1999 07:06 PM      Profile for Erick Ojeda   Email Erick Ojeda   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

I read in Film Journal magazine a few months back about soundtracks on films being changed to magenta, and then to Cyan. The writer of the article said that the reason for the transition to magenta before cyan is so that theater owners will be able to change their exciter bulbs to LED. He called this period, "the transition period for theater owners." At the theater I work at, we run Simplex XL projectors with exciter bulbs. Would the change of the soundtracks really affect us if we didn't make the change to LED? And if the change of the soundtracks doesn't really matter to change the exciter bulb to LED, what would be the advantage to changing to LED anyway? I would like to thank everyone asnwers my questions.

Erick Ojeda

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 11-17-1999 07:41 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The magenta track can be read by both a led or an excitor
A cyan track will not reproduce with a excitor so if you wish to have optical sound you will have to have a red light source specifically red led

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Erick Ojeda
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Vineland, NJ
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 11-17-1999 07:56 PM      Profile for Erick Ojeda   Email Erick Ojeda   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Gordon for the reply. I currently have 4 simplex projectors to operate, and they all run with exciter bulbs. In your estimation, what would be the average cost to convert all four to red LED?

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999

- posted 11-17-1999 08:38 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ALL the theaters in my local area still have good old reliable exciter lamps. From what I've seen at many other theaters in western Washington State, only 30 percent have converted to reverse scan/led setups. That leaves 70 percent still running exciter lamps.

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Mike Bianchi
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Independence, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 11-17-1999 08:39 PM      Profile for Mike Bianchi   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Bianchi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you are running Simplex XL's, which sound head head are you using?

Kelmar makes a nice retro-fit conversion for the SH-1000 sound head for about $750 (plus installation).

I know Hadden Theatre Supply in Louisville is carrying it.

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Erick Ojeda
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Vineland, NJ
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 11-17-1999 08:55 PM      Profile for Erick Ojeda   Email Erick Ojeda   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike:

To my recollection, we run SH 1000 soundheads. Right now, the theater I work at is getting renovated because we are under new ownership, so it is going to take some time to get the owners to upgrade some equipment. At $750.00 a pop plus installation, they might give me a hard time, but in time I will convince them after finding the best price I can find. What do you believe is the time frame before all films run with the Cyan soundtracks?

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Scott Ribbens
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Oct 1999

- posted 11-18-1999 12:02 AM      Profile for Scott Ribbens   Email Scott Ribbens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another option that you have is to go with the Ultra Stereo Jax Light. It is a direct exciter replacement. If the optics on your sound head are in good shape, you should get very good results, but if the optics are not in great shape you would be much better off with the Kelmar reverse scan up-grade. As I recall, they are about $500.00 list-plus installation. I have had good results with these, but you get better results with a change to a Kelmar reverse scan.

As to a time frame on switch over to Cyan tracks, I couldn't say. Maybe John P. ,our man from Kodak, could chime in on this one .

------------------

Scott

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Kelsey Black
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: Pima, Arizona, USA
Registered: Aug 1999

- posted 11-18-1999 01:10 AM      Profile for Kelsey Black   Email Kelsey Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I said in the other thread, I found that "the Story of Us" was printed with a cyan soundtrack (and a faded one at that) and it played just fine with exciter bulb illumination.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 11-18-1999 01:48 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, the difference in crosstalk and frequency response is well worth the full led reverse scan upgrade! I wouldn't mess with the Jaxlite because at $500 vs. around $700...that doesn't make sense. I've used the Kelmars with excellent results and the Component Engineering are fantastic as well.

I think John Pytlak has been out of the office on a "China" program. If memory serves, he will be back today and hopefully can give us a better guesstimate on the cyan conversion date!

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 11-18-1999 10:48 AM      Profile for Aaron Mehocic   Email Aaron Mehocic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To my understanding, the change in tracks is due to hit on a mass scale after the first of the year (2000). I was told this last February by our technician. As for the reverse scan readers, Kelmar has the best. At our nine plex, we are running four of these, each in our digital houses. I was told the stereo houses will be converted after the new year. I'll believe that when I see it.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 11-18-1999 04:43 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A cyan track wikll definatly not reproduce with an excitor lamp all you hear is hiss with a low level soundtrack. I have tested it with cyan test reel that I had printed
The reason for conversion to cyan is to eliminate the residual silver in the soundtrack and the reduction of lab work that requires reprocessing just the soundtrack are with a very caustic chemical
A lot of prints get damaged in just that operation and are scrapped
I ahve had also good luck with the laser lens but getting even illumiation is a bitch of a job

The conversion to cyan was planned to occur when 80% of new theatre (IE large circuits) had red light sources. That has been reached since no new machine doesn't have a red light source

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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 11-18-1999 07:01 PM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can a super bright red LED be used as the exciter light source replacing the bulb and NOT as a reverse scan light source? Most of what I have read indicates that LED's are only used in reverse scan applications.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

- posted 11-19-1999 01:03 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jeff:

That is exactly the principle used by the JAXlight, they take a high intensity LED array and mount it onto a unit with twist-lock base that fits a standard exciter lamp assembly perfectly.

Aaron


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 11-19-1999 08:53 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok...as to the conversion to Cyan based soundtracks (I am on the SMPTE committee that covers this)....Gordon was mistaken...the conversion is set to take place when 80% of the INDUSTRY HAS CONVERTED to red LED readers (that includeds the installed base). That number is less than 50% at this time (I believe it was near 40% at the last meeting) and the current estimates for when the magic 80% number is achieved is still years away. Heck, E-Cinema may take over before the cyan track!

Now as to the comment that Kelmar's basement readers are the best....just where did someone get that data? Kelmar makes a good product but it would be hard to say that they are definatively "the best". Their LED mount is fixed and dependant on the precision of the original milling of the soundhead casting and depending on vintage, is all over the place for Century and Simplex. I can generally get a better alignment out of a Component Engineering reader and have heard that Kinoton's basement reader is tough to beat (though I haven't used that one yet).

Oh, another nice thing about CE readers...you don't have to cut up your Century sound head...everything fits right out of the box.

Steve

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 11-19-1999 06:00 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the Canadian Labs has stated they plan to cease silver enhanced tracks when 80% of new theatres are led based. And that was where I heard that info. Also at Showeast last year Technicolor US was planning on the same timeframe

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