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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » HELP: Prints getting marked with "Dots" (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: HELP: Prints getting marked with "Dots"
Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 03-05-2000 11:41 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, the projector in question is a Christie with a Dolby Digital reader on the top. It has been marking prints with small dots that show up on the right hand side of the screen. It gradually gets worse and worse unitl there are dots all up and down that side of the picture. So far it has damaged American Beauty back in October-wasn't too bad though. Music of the Heart in November-not to bad either. Bond 19-horribly damaged. And Green Mile-attrocious. We have inspected all the rollers several times and can't seem to find anything that would be marking it. The last time MTS came through our theater we told them about it and they couldn't find anything wrong either. Please help! This is THX theater and one of our best auditoriums. But we can't keep on wrecking film like this.

Any ideas?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 03-06-2000 12:11 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Can you send me a sample foot of damaged film?

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-06-2000 12:31 AM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like the projector is getting miss-threaded. If the "dots" are white then they are made by the sprocket trying to punch a how in the film. (hard to do with polyester.)

I always feel for the sprocket teeth with my finger after I thread, before I start the projector.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 03-06-2000 12:46 AM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, yes, I could.

Ian, nope. At first we thought someone was not loading the dolby digital reader tight enough and the film was rubbing against itself. However the dots appeared on Green mile two days after we started running it. The only people who had loaded the film-myself and another experienced projectionist-took special care to load it properly becuase OO7 had been damaged so badly before.

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Paul Powers
Film Handler

Posts: 14
From: Marin, CA
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 03-06-2000 03:43 AM      Profile for Paul Powers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well this is just a chance but I had a similar occurance with our print of "True Crime" It started as a little speckels just off of center and as the print ran a few more times it got worse. It turned out there was a hot spot from the lamp and we were actually burning the print.
Might be worth looking into.

Good Luck!

-=|Paul

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-06-2000 11:55 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had this very same problem a few months ago. Although I have Century proj. instead of Christie I, too, have to suggest it may be a pad roller.

At first, I didn't think it was a pad roller but I looked closer and found a very, very small nick on one of them. (On the holdback spkt.)

Actually, I sent a snip of film to Brad and pretty much as soon as he got it he knew what it was. I looked where he told me and "Ka-Ching!" there it was! Amazing!

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 03-06-2000 09:43 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I took a closer look at the damaged film today and here is what it looks like. It is a very concentrated band of dots aproximately 20mm from the soundtrack. It's almost like a line.

I'll get a film clip to you asap. I was into work today but was to busy with other things to snip off a piece.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 03-07-2000 12:04 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dustin:

Do you really mean 20mm from the analog soundtrack, which would certainly not be the edge of the image? Can you tell if the damage is on the emulsion side or the back side of the prints? What color are the "dots"?

When scratches are in a perfect line, and don't "wander" side-to-side, the damage is likely occuring at a place where the film is being edge-guided, such as a flanged roller. Another possibility is an incorrectly sized loop above or below the gate, such that the loop is contacting a stationary part of the projector.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 03-07-2000 12:10 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dustin:

Oops I just got my mind in gear after a day on airplanes and in airports. 20mm from the analog soundtrack WOULD be the right hand edge of the image.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 03-07-2000 11:16 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I got a piece snipped off today and will have it in the mail tommorrow. Whatever was doing this must be fixed becuase we have had American Beauty in this theater for a week now and their is no damage. Following the pattern of previously damaged movies there should be some dots by now. I'd still like to find out what was doing it, in case it happens again.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 03-08-2000 02:40 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Brad, maybe I'm blind but I can't seem to find a mailing address for you anywhere. Post it here (or email me if you prefer) and I'll get that film sample out to you.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 03-08-2000 03:37 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dustin-

Film-Tech is currently relocating (the company, not the web site) so any mailing address that you would have would be obsolete now anyway. As I write this, he is in transit.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 03-08-2000 06:31 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
#@%*!!

American Beauty is starting to get marked, the problem hasn't gone away. This is really getting to me .

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 03-08-2000 07:12 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Seriously, recheck every single roller with a flashlight for a small knick or burr. Take your time doing this, as it might be easy to overlook. The reason it may have taken American Beauty so long to get damaged is because Technicolor probably processed your print with PhotoGuard or ImageGuard (same thing, essentially) which can make it EXTREMELY resistant to scratching for awhile.

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Jon Bartow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 287
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 03-09-2000 01:22 AM      Profile for Jon Bartow   Email Jon Bartow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dustin,
I had a similar problem with a Christie. Found it the same day it started though. Turned out to be crud on the sound drum.
Other than that, have fun with a flashlight, the rollers and your fingers.
How big do you gentlemen make the bottom loop? Not knowing which Christie proj. you have, but Christie had this thing with their "Ultramittents" if the loops are too big the film rubs the bottom of the intermittent causing scratches.

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