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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Capital Improvements
Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 12:44 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We're comming up to the end of our movie season, here at Mercyhurst College. Each season we make a few improvements. I was asked by the boss if I had any suggestions but I couldn't think of any.

We just put in a new screen and spekers last season. We also got the film cleaner (and of course FilmGuard!) for this season.

In the past, we've gotten title strips. ("Previews", "...and now our FEATURE", etc.) We also did a few things to beef up the sound. (Putting the sound through the Media Matrix that was already in there.)

Here are some ideas I've had...


  1. Get a SR-D (Dolby Dig.)
  2. Get some automation. (Hook the cue detector to the house lights, etc.)
  3. Get a logo strip that says, "Mercyhurst".
  4. Get travellers for the masking.

Aside from cost, the problem with SR-D is that it might not be worth it. A lot of films we have aren't in digital. Also, our auditorium is originally a concert hall, not a movie theatre. (The accoustics are different) Wouldn't putting digital in there be kinda' like putting a stained-glass window in a privy?

What to all you folks think?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 08:25 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If my memory serves me correctly you have a Mod2B processor and it will not accept a digital input.
I would replace it with either a Panastereo or a CP65 (only if you get the real SR cards not the Cat222SR/A)
You can then add as required

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 08:47 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about a DTS unit, since (if they made them) it can be used to run muliple langauges.

A SR-D or DTS still makes sense, because it sounds great and is low maintaince.

Or a system for the hearing-imparied.

What lenses are you using? If they are over 20 years old, you would get a big improvement with new ones. Or maybe additional lenses to properly show 1.33, 1.66. etc.

Sub-woofer system? Or anything that would improve the accoustics (sound deading, more surround speakers, etc.)

Movable masking would be nice. Try to get to open/close for 1.33, 1.66. etc.

Booth supplies: Split reels, trailer flange, good splicer, frame counter, additional tools or projector parts. If there's a small port window (rather then a large spotlight window) for the projector(s), how about a peice of optical glass?

Take a look at the post "Booth Supplys" from 12-14-1999.

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 10:02 AM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy,
What kind of projectors do you have and how many of them? I ask because from time to time we have perfectly good rebuilt products that we cannot sell as new, and depending upon several factors, we sometimes make them available to educational institutions at greatly reduced or no cost.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 11:40 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy,
The first thing you should do is get the travlers for proper masking. Making a proper presentation should be foremost and with yards of blank screem staring back at the audience that can't be too good of an impression. The next thing I would do is to add digital sound along with some type of acoustic treatment. My feelings are of course biased towards SRD as this particuluar single system has proven itself far more reliable than any of the others as long as you have the CAT 701 Reader...forget the basement digital stuff but do go the LED scanner route for analog. I lost count of how many ROM drives I've replaced in DTS units and there are also reports of theaters in this area with the new DTS processors that are locking up at random. Also as one local Artsy theater here in SLC says that he sees far more SRD tracks comming in on foreign films now than any other system. It does seems like it is getting to be the universally accepted system for the most part. Also I would go the CP-500 route. The 500 has digital EQ and really does sound better overall than the old cat 64's. You can also get the real SR in the 500 if you want to soend the extra$$, but it is something that will probably go un noticed. Personally, I tend to stay away from off brand stuff like Smart, or Panastereo. As good as they may sound that ain't whats happenin in the real world.
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 12:04 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a dislike of the CP500 as I find the digital eq harsher (especially the older ones) than the analogue eq (same goes for SDDS)
That is why I would recomend the CP65 or the Panastereo that is the best sounding unit out there FYI the British Film Institute is replaceing their CP500's with Panastereo's

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 02:22 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

Memory serves you well! Smart Mod II B it is. Originally it was only Left/Right stereo only. It was modified for L/C/R/Surr. (Not split surr.) It does have an "AUX" input ghmode. There are terminals on the back for L/C/R/S. I thought that's all that was needed. Guess not.
If we did get SR-D it would likely be a penthouse reader, not in the basement.
If I had MY choice, I'd replace the processor right now. Aside from the fact that I don't like the sound, it just seems kind of "klunky" to me. Folks around here are kind of sketchy about replacing something that works perfectly "well".

Equipment:


  • Simplex XL (PR-1003) (c. 1950)
  • Simplex 5-Star (NEW w/ red LED reader)
  • XeLamp 2000w lamphouse.
  • Strong P.S. (NEW)
  • Smart Mod II B
  • Lenses:
    Flat = Kollmorgan 4" - f1.9
    Scope = Moller Anamorphot (fl = ? / f?)
    Acad = Can't find markings, under the collar.

Yep, the lenses are pretty old. They're on my list. Still, "Why replace them? Are they broken?"

There are PICS in the Pic Warehouse if you want to see them.

Masking:
We have custom made curtains for masking. They are black scrim w/ Duvetine on the edges. We tie them to the fly pipe. There are spike marks for each format (F/S/Acad) It's kind of a pain in the ass to move them. Travellers would be way nice!

DTS:
That's what I would choose but I don't think enough of our films are formatted in DTS. I've only seen a few with timecode and we've only ever gotten ONE with discs in the can. I suppose we could ASK for discs when we book films. Still, I think there are more SR-D prints than DTS. (At least in the ones we book.)

Assisted listening:
Good Idea! That's definately on my list! The boss will go for it 'cuz we can make it do double duty for stage shows, too!

As far as supplies, I try to slip in a few new items now and then. I've also got a bunch of "salvaged" stuff, too.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 02:54 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord,
Doug Raden, of Raden/Davis (913-962-2302) did extensive listening tests with the CP-500 and the CP-65. He concluded that the 500 EQ was far cleaner and quieter than the cat 64's were in the CP-65. I've installed both CP's and like them both but the fact is that there is far less phase shift in the 500 eq system than there can ever be in the cat 64's. The 500 eq system is also alot quieter than its competitors. Lets face it the simple fact that you get real SR with it does make a difference, and there is the option to even upgrade that.
Personally, I have not noticed any harshness when setting up CP-500's on EV, or JBL 2 or 3 way systems and using the R-2 for eq. Perhaps the mixes you were running were not so good.........Use R-1 of True Lies or something of that caliber for your tests, and above all something you are familiar with. Never use the film that just happens to be sitting on the platter at the time.
Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 03:00 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm going with Gord here. The cat64Bs are superior in my opinion to any form of digital eqing. That includes CP500s and anything SDDS. I'm always careful not to "over-eq" and I think that's really the trick.

I prefer a CP65 with a DTS6-D over a DA20 purely for the 3db drop on the surrounds though on the CP65 model.

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Andy Davis
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Gainesville, FL
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 07:51 PM      Profile for Andy Davis   Author's Homepage   Email Andy Davis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Somebody mentioned a frame counter. What exactly is this?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 07:55 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A "frame counter" is better known as a "sync block." It's basically a big sprocket that is mounted on a base and geared to an odometer-like device that measures the film in feet and frames.

This type of device has two major uses--measuring film (for figuring out how much footage is lost in a reel, determining running times for things, and checking changeover cue placement) and finding framelines at fade-outs. It's kind of hard to describe this thing in words, but sync blocks are incredibly useful (I would argue that they are essential) in the booth and you'll wonder how you got along without one.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 08:04 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, as for the "upgrade" suggestions--I think it's great that this place wants to continually upgrade their equipment. That attitude is a far cry from the typical attitude of commercial theatre managers.

Personally, I'd say that there are lots of things that you should do before even thinking about digital sound. SR-D would be nice, but the cost is probably in the $20k range by the time that you buy the equipment and have someone come out to install and tweak it.

I'd suggest starting with picture-quality issues: get the masking working properly (preferably with remote control devices in the booth), ditch the old lenses and get a full set of new or slightly-used ISCO lenses, replace your xenon bulb if it's time, replace any damaged parts (reflectors, etc.), replace port glass with proper optical glass, etc.

Then for sound quality, I'd recommend getting a full set of test/alignment films and doing a full A-chain alignment and maybe a B-chain if you can borrow or rent an RTA from somewhere. Have a good tech come out to tweak stuff. Maybe start to think about upgrading the processor to something like a souped-up CP-50 (with A and SR cards, 108C preamp card, 64B EQ cards, etc.) or CP-65.

If you still have money left over, consider the following: second projector for once-only screenings, 16mm projector, booth supplies (split reels, better rewind bench, etc.) and whatever else strikes your fancy. I'd much rather have all of this stuff than digital sound, personally...

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 08:26 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
May I strongly suggest you dump those lenses. In fact, (if it was me) that would be number one, and a lot of the other stuff could wait.

In addition to the large improvement in focus/resoution, you will probably get a 2-3 fL increase in light. Anamorphic lenses (usually they are called 'adapters' because they screw on to a "prime" lens) do not have a focal length.

Not cheap, though. One lens 4 inch= (about) 100mm - a Super Cinelux (35mm) is $1640. An anamorphic - $2100.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 11:00 PM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is this a "sync block"? I took a picture of it back in 1983.

That big wheel has marks on it which line up with the frame lines... so you could run a big, long piece of black film or leader or whatever through it and, at the end, you could easily see if you were still in frame. I didn't have to use it often, but when I did it was quite handy.


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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 11:20 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's a frame line marker and footage counter. A sync-block looks just the same except it has two or more rollers so you can keep the film and soundtrack "in-sync."

I wish I had one of those, just like the picture.

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