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Author Topic: Question about those Slide Ads
Sara Serine Orton
Film Handler

Posts: 32
From: Moscow, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 04-20-2000 12:56 PM      Profile for Sara Serine Orton   Email Sara Serine Orton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was thinking aobut putting in a porjector for the ever popular slide ads they now have at movie theaters. Will just any 35mm slide projector do? Do they sell ones that are sychronized? Where would i get one? Who must I kill? How does this work?


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 01:30 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AFAIK, the slide projectors are usually supplied by the advertising companies contracting with the theatre to show the slide ads. In most cases, they use Kodak slide projectors. Unfortunately, they usually do not use the available modified versions that use brighter metal-arc or xenon-arc light sources, so the projectors tend to be much too dim on a big screen.

At ShoWest, a new company called "Digireel" was selling a digital projection system for pre-show ads that had a list price of $19,900.00.

Check out the Kodak DLP digital and slide projectors at:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/digital/av/

You shouldn't have to "kill" anyone to get projectors. If your theatre has the business, and you are willing to subject your audience to ads, there are companies that will pay you to run the ads.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 01:40 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Please don't show ads!

But, if you must, at least do it right--get a pair of Kodak Ektagraphic projectors with the xenon modification (I believe that Strong--the Simplex/Century people--sells xenon-modified Ektagrphics) and get a dissolve control to provide smooth fades between slides, with no dark-screen interval between them.

The slide companies usually provide the projection equipment, but the brightness is often woefully inadequate for theatre-size screens. Off-the-shelf Ektagraphics are made for conference-room-size screens, not theatre-size ones...

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-20-2000 01:54 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In Connecticut, we use a company called "Promotion Slides." They are OK (they are not a pain, the ads are not too stupid, they "give" you a few to promote your own stuff.)

They use the ever popular Kodak carousel with 50 slides. I don't know what wattage bulb they use, but it creates an image that's bright enough if there are no screen wash lights. While they do sell control boxes to have two (or more) slide projectors alternate, we only use one projector. We did insist though, that they have a simple control box to fade out the lamp before advancing to the next slide- it looks a little nicer. We get about 3 weeks out of a bulb before it dies.

Or you could line up the advertisers yourself, but that is a lot of work. You'd also have to take pictures and/or do some graphic art to create the slides- not too hard, but very time consuming.

So, some outlined thoughts:

Adjusting the lighting in the auditorum to keep the screen dark. Of course, you can unscrew bulbs, but will that make the theater too dark for people to see comming in?

Cutting an extra port hole in the wall with it's own glass for the projector (will your building codes allow this?) If so, my suggestion is to put it at about the same height as the regular projector port window, so the slides are easy to get at and change. This depends on your booth layout, obviously.

You could just put it on a (very!) high shelf in the back of the theater. Be aware that kids can jump very high. We did it that way at one theater, (there was a 125ft throw and the slide projector lamp wasn't bright enough so we had to put it closer) and people got annoyed listening to the "click-kaclick" of changing slides. Also, (on a shelf) it's hard to get at to repair or change slides.

In either case, it needs an outlet. The outlet must be hooked up such that can be controlled by the projectionist to shut off when the feature starts. (Ours are hooked into the automation to go off/on automatically.) If the projector can be in the booth, it might be easy to hook up an outlet. If it's the back of the theater, you might need a electrician (or someone like him!)

Now, that said, is there anyway we can talk you out of putting slide projectors in? I hate 'em. But I must acknowlege that they can generate a lot of money.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 02:23 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, our projectors are owned by NCN (National Cinema Network). NCN also sends us the quartely replacements for the trivia slide portion of the program. The advertising slides, along with bulbs, are handled by C&A Advertising our of Des Moines, Iowa. Their number is 1-800-SELLS-4-U.

My only advice to you is if you do put the projectors on shelfs inside the auditorium, as opposed to on the booth side of the wall, you might have problems with bulbs burning out at excessive rates due to the port glass blocking the cooling fan and creating a lot of heat in that space.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 02:49 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our slide ads are handled by Century Media. I like them because they send a guy out to change slides and I never have to touch them. Unfortunately they do screw up sometimes and some trivia questions have no answers, and some answers have no questions. And when both the question and the answer are there, they are about 5 or 6 slides apart, so you forget what the question even was. But at least I don't have to touch the slides.

They do provide projectors that at least fade out and back in between slides. Better than the normal slide projectors that just go black and then immediately back on with a different slide. Fade time is adjustable.

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Sara Serine Orton
Film Handler

Posts: 32
From: Moscow, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 04-20-2000 03:03 PM      Profile for Sara Serine Orton   Email Sara Serine Orton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
$19,000! AHHH!

I'm just doing this for my university. I will be run by little old me. I was just thinking about getting a Kodak carosel silde projector that runs itself. It's only on one screen (very small screen, seats only 180) I'm looking for new ways to bring in money for out campus movies. Do you think this would be a good idea? I'll just runs ads for oncampus stuff like the newspaper, campus outdoor rec ads, RHA Ads, that sort of thing. If I did this the what would I charge per ad? Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks everyone!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 03:11 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree wholeheartedly with that Scott said. Please don't show ad slides...they take away a bit of that moviegoing experience.

However, if you must, then Scott's dual xenon dissolving setup is THE way to go. Alternatively, at least get you a TELEX model with fade in/fade out on each slide. There's nothing more tacky than the generic model Kodak that just pops in and out and in and in and in and in and in and in and in...damnit, I need to go repair that projector again! (No offense John, but the Kodak projectors I've used were brand new and were pathetically unreliable. Does Kodak have a higher quality level machine available that could be recommended to Sara? Preferably one with fading capabilities.)

On another note, stay away from putting the slide projector at waist level. First, if you put them on the operator side of the projector, the hot air will be constantly blasting you while you are threading and starting the show. That's just damn annoying. Second, if you mount it on a shelf on the non-operator side of the projector (typically the platter side), you will break your back every time you thread as you keep ramming yourself into that damn shelf! Believe me, I've logged no less than 10,000 hits myself. Also, when that lamp is on and you bump it, typically you will break the filament and have to get another bulb. So, place them up high. They don't have to be at the ceiling, but out of your way so you don't bump your head on the shelf. Just pull the carousel down when you need to change slides. Your day to day operatiors will thank you.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 03:20 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad:

Check out the Kodak website URL I gave.

The EKTAPRO line is the professional level, and the 7020 and 9020 models have built-in dissolve.

Many of the slide avertising companies use the consumer version, which aren't designed for the abuse they get in theatre operation.

But even the stock EKTAPRO projectors haven't got enough light for really big images. So the metal-arc or xenon-arc modifications are recommended.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 03:26 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sara:

As others have noted, you can buy your own projector (check the Kodak website I gave), and make your own slides. For a small, one-screen university theatre like yours, I'm not sure you could get an advertising contract and a free projector. As others have said, pre-show ads are not the best of showmanship.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 03:38 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One more quick comment--you can make your own slides pretty easily. I've had great success in making my own white-text-on-black slides using a standard 35mm camera and "Kodak Ektagraphic HC" film. This is basically the same material as the Kodalith graphic arts products.

The nice thing about this method is the simplicity and low cost--you create the artwork with black text on white background (using pen and ink, typewrither, laser printer, etc.) and then photograph it with a regular camera (preferably with a good copy stand setup). The film can be processed by hand in about fifteen minutes (you don't really need a darkroom if you have a changing bag or light-tight closet to load the film into the developing tank). Total cost is about $.50 per slide for film and chemistry plus about $.50 each for good-quality glass slide mounts.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 06:19 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've always thought that slide ads are very tacky! I was at a locallex theater last week cause it was the only place in town to see Rear Window. The slide thing there really sucks and they have what they claim to be the Cineplex radio network or something. Anyway it was all in all very stupid. The funniest thing was that no one advertised and all that you saw was have your ad on this screen and some stupid trivia. I guess not too many local buisness people really care about having an ad on screen.
Mark

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 11:28 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We must have the consumer version Kodak's because I have to agree with Brad. They are continuosly breaking down and burn through bulbs ever 4 to 15 days (when the bulbs should last at least 30). In comparision the two Telex models we have have not been sent in for repair once the entire year I have been 'Slide Manager.' Their bulbs also last upwards of 60 days. Considering you will be paying for the bulbs yourself if you don't contract an advertising company-and considering they cost $13 a piece-bulb longevitiy should be one of your main concerns.

As far as slide programs being tacky, I don't mind so much. Think of it like this, if there weren't slide and a reasonable amount of commercial trailers (not REASONABLE), the customer would be getting slammed at the box office and concession stand even more than they do already. The money for stadium seating, union operators, and all digital sound has to come from somewhere you know.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 05:10 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John, I'll have to find out specifically what model projectors those were. If it's any hint as to the model number, they had no form of fading, were either brown or gray plastic cased, they had this habit of either sticking to the same slide for infinity *or* constantly cycled slides at an unstoppable rate, and they seemed about as sturdy as something from the Fisher Price plant...so you're probabaly right and they were consumer models. Some of them did have a "bright light" kit, which was just about as bright as the little bulbs in that kiddie game "bright light"...hence the name I guess.

Why oh why do some people cinch like that!?!?!? It's just like throwing money out the window in the long run. We never had more than 75% of the screens properly running at any given moment in time those damn things were breaking so fast.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 05:27 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, I've checked out the link John gave above and the units I used with all the problems are...(drumroll, please)............. The Kodak Ektagraphic III AMT! (crowd applauds)

Is this the consumer version? If so, why does the web site say (and I quote) "the workhorse of the AV industry" as well as "world-class slide projectors for presentation professionals" in the description on the web site? These slide projectors have one very major flaw in their design. If you pull the bottom cover off and watch during a slide change, you will see a little thin arm on a gear which grabs at a little metal plate to advance the slide. If this assembly gets even slightly worn or out of alignment for any reason, the gear will spin forever constantly advancing to the next slide! After a certain amount of use, the little metal plate will develop a lip on it and then you've really got some work to do to prevent the arm from catching! Sure these are quick to fix, but they just don't last more than a couple of weeks before the assembly works it's way out of alignment again. Top that off with those weird screws they are assembled with (forgive me for forgetting their proper name) and these machines are just one big pain in the butt. Certainly with all of the great minds at Kodak, SOMEONE there can fix this design flaw for future machines. (hint, hint)

I've had exactly zero problems ever with a TELEX projector. Never, nada, not one. If I had a gun to my head and was told "make one of those annoying slide programs for this theater", I would purchase a TELEX unit so I wouldn't have to deal with projector maintenance. (Sorry for the bad review John, but it's really the truth. Kodak makes a fantastic film, but they need some help in the projector category.)

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