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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Projector Brands
Richard Quesnelle
Film Handler

Posts: 67
From: Penetang, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 03:18 PM      Profile for Richard Quesnelle   Email Richard Quesnelle   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Howdy Everyone!

I was wondering which projectors are most commonly seen in booths today (ie. both old and new styles).

Also if possible, what would be the going rate for buying either a new or used one (if still manufactured).

Thanks

Richard

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 04:58 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm probably not the right person to answer this since you probably refer to American booths and I happen to live in Europe, but I will anyway since I feel like writing something on the forum tonight. Besides, I'm sure you're all dying to know what I'm going to tell you.

In Sweden, the Cinemeccanica Victoria 5 is more or less the norm these days, even though there are a lot of Kinoton machines around. Most flagship theatres here still have a pair of Philips DP70s (Norelco AA-II). My theatre, where we mostly run archive prints, uses a pair of Zeiss Favorit70 projectors, a Philips FP56, and a Bauer Selecton II for 16mm.

There used to be a lot of Ernemann and Bauer machines in the older booths, but most of these theatres are now gone. Also, the Swedish AGA Ultra used to be fairly common (but is not, anymore).

Strangely enough, I've never seen a Century or a Simplex in a Swedish booth, even though I understand they're quite common in the American booths. The only Century machines I've actually seen myself were old Cinemiracle machines, plus a cute little 35mm thing owned by a friend of mine.

As for buying a used 35mm projector, that depends. Around here it used to be fairly easy to get hold of an old Ernemann or a Bauer, for very little or no money, since the multiplex owners had a bunch of them in storage after all those theatres they closed down. They were of little use to them, yet they were reluctant to just throw them away.

When I worked for the local theatre chain, I asked for and got a 35/70mm Zeiss Favorit70 without having to pay anything. They had several of them after closing down some of the larger cinemas in the country. The technical manager hadn't had the heart to get rid of any of them. I guess I got mine because he thought I'd take good care of it.

So I guess my answer is, ask around where you work. You might get lucky. Or check the ads in the Equipment Wanted & For Sale forum.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-20-2000 06:27 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well...

In most modern booths you will find:
35mm:

Simplex (XL, 1015, 1050)
Century (SA and related models)
Christie (GP35 and related)
Cinemeccanica
Norelco/Kinoton (FP20 and related models)

35/70mm:

Century (JJ)
Simplex (XL3570)
Norelco (AAII, DP75)

In most older theatres using the original equipment you will usually find:

Simplex (Super, E7, early model XL)
Century (C, H)
Brenkert (BX40,60,80,100)
Motiograph (AAA)


Aaron


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Nicholas McRobert
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 04-20-2000 06:32 PM      Profile for Nicholas McRobert   Email Nicholas McRobert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, Ari is right. Here in the UK, the biggest chain, Odeon, uses Cinemecannica machines and have recently started to install Kinoton FP40's in new sites. ABC Cinemas and UGC(UK)also use Kinotons circuit-wide. As far as I know, Warner-Village use Cinemeccanicas and possibly Simplex -- UCI and Showcase use Cinemecannica, however as with Odeon, there seems to be a growing trend towards changing to Kinotons. Generally, these chains also install equipment to "match" -- ie same brand of platter, automation, console, lamphouse etc. There are quite a few Century machines in use in a lot of independent theatres. Christie machines seem to be rarer, appearing in only a couple of theatres that I know of.

Nicholas

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Michael West
Film Handler

Posts: 67
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 10:29 PM      Profile for Michael West   Author's Homepage   Email Michael West   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
if i see anouther simplex..., it used to be century with northern electric soundheads but now it is simplex 35s and the xls. for the rarely used 70mm we have the cinemeccanica - victoria 8

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-21-2000 08:04 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cinemeccanica V8's were very popular overseas, especally in the UK. In 1968 or so, the American dollar was very strong in Italy, so many US theaters bought V8's.

I think today, people are tending to stay away from Cinemeccanica. They lost a patent-infringment lawsuit, (not related to motion-picture equipment) and either are- or are close to bankruptcy.

Personally, I really like V8' and V9's, but I have to admit replacement parts are very expensive, and they stopped making some others.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 08:45 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've always liked the V-8, they are extremely rugged projectors but I have never been happy with the 35mm lateral steadiness factor. The sound reproducer is novel as it doesn't contact the pix area of the film but it can be a pain in the a!! to set up. All Cinemecannicas seem to run 70mm alot better than they can run 35mm. They also seem a bit hard on film too. The trap plate seems to have been designed by someone that couldn't decide if he wanted to design a straight or curved one. Hard to believe they actually run 3 panel Cinerama in Bradford. There must be alot of changes to the gate to get it steady enough. I've heard that bankruptcy thing about both Prevost and Cinemecannicca several times over the years but I don't know if any of the storys are true.
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 10:41 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The newer shackemecanica gates are much better and the hollow sound drum is great to generate ongoing service calls when a splice or the tail piece drops in there and ripps out the cell
As scarry as it sounds mark about them building cinerama machines what is worse is that the actually built a horizontal 15 perf 70 machine to compete with Imax in conjunction with Ushio/xebex for a pavilion in Japan at one of the worlds fairs
It was not a sucess
The prevost issue of bakruptcy was mainly due from the estate splitting the assets as prevost also made cameras and invented the flatbed editor and the estate split each division up according to the info that filtered over here
What was cinemecanicas patent infringement over?

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-21-2000 11:39 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, I was laughing because I agree totally with everything you said, especally the about the gate/trap... it looks curved, but...! I think the gate/trap is what's hard on the film, everything else seems pretty good.

And the cell for the optical sound is a major pain. And Gordon, just last week a guy threaded a V8 wrong here and totally destroyed an optical cell. That's the third one since polyster became widespread.

Aligning the mag head is not easy either, since there are no adjustments at all. You kind of install it and hope it's good. We tried using the mag head that came with it, and it clogged so much we threw it away (with only 10-12 hours on it) and got a Teccon.

I was very unhappy with the tech support for Cinemeccanica. I never delt with the new guys in Californa, but I hear they are not so good. I did deal with the people in Flordia when it was there, and there was only one guy that knew anything, and he left. I got so annoyed, I called up Cinemeccanica of Canada and talked to a guy who was pretty good. He wasn't allowed sell anything, but gave me good advice.

Here's a link for the patent thing: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/775714/0000950148-98-000936.txt

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 11:54 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cinecanica Canada?
what is that originally Cinemecanica USA was a venture of the principles of Canadian Odeon Theatres and Cinemecanica SPA
In canada it was distributed through General Sound (now gone) and Best Theatre Supply (also a sub of Canadian Odeon Theatres)
I don't know the status now

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 11:59 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ari could you post some pictures of the AgaBaltic machines.
At one point Odeon theatres was thnking of bring them to canada but went with Cinemecanica instead
Also has anyone pictures of the perfectone machines

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 01:13 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord, The lawsuit was supposedly over a camera dolly patent infringement. I saw a picture of the 15 perf 70mm machine someplace along time ago. It musta shredded film like a veg-o-matic! Man what a huge sprocket. Even with 8 pef its bad enough unless you have a VKF 32 tooth intermittent sprocket. That actually eliminates any film damage running 8 pef. I'm not so sure that it would help 15 perf 70mm though running with a regular pulldown. Perhaps a double movement thingy like the Megasystem machine would work though. If done right it could even be pin registered.
Hey........ thats a great idea for my next projector project! We are looking for some way to run 15 perf 70mm in the park reasonably!
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 01:55 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The machine did more than shed I think it was closer to shred
I wouldn't waste time on a 15/70mm machine with a movement.
I think the ideal solution would be a contious motion machine basically a scaled up version of the machau arcadia projector that Leitz built in the 20's
I have been searching for one of these machines for years. I do know that some were converted to sound
Perfectone makes a machine that is similar
I have yet to se a v8 in 8 perf

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-21-2000 02:27 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sorry. Cinemeccanica of Canada was not the real name. The real name (this was 17 years ago) was Cinemeccanica of North America. The guy I there I talked to was (I'm sure I'm not spelling his name right) Rant Hindian.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-21-2000 08:25 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That would have been the Montreal office of Best theatre Supply
In the seventies every odeon was cinemecanica

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