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Topic: Fantasia 2000 on 35mm

Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-15-2000 12:50 PM

How will Fantasia 2000 be presented on 35mm film? Will it be printed as a small 4:3 rectangle in the middle of the image area like "The Wizard of Oz" was a couple of years ago, or will it be printed full frame and cropped to 1.85:1? I never got to see this film in IMAX, but I assume the aspect ratio was approximately 4:3. It's a shame that modern theatres don't have at least one screen that will handle Academy properly for the occasional release of an older movie or a shrink-down of an IMAX movie.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-15-2000 01:42 PM

Fantasia 2000 will be shown in 35mm 1.85, which is what the film was designed for. (I assume prints will be hard-matted at 1.66). The film was bumped up to IMAX size (and this version wasn't even in full IMAX - the film was hard-matted at 1.66 and the Sorcerer's Apprentice sequence was "windowboxed" (1.33 within the 1.66 matte), so the IMAX frame was never fully utilized (it wasn't really that big of a deal, but the live-action intros looked terrible in IMAX - they were very grainy and the composition of everything was out of scale for normal IMAX films - none of the proper IMAX scaling was evident).

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-15-2000 02:10 PM

Thanks for the info. I have the deluxe box set laserdisc of Fantasia and it was 4:3, so I assumed (incorrectly) that since Fantasia 2000 was IMAX, it would be 4:3 as well. I never made it down to Atlanta to see this film while it was being shown at the Mall of Georgia Regal IMAX. I'll catch it this week at the local Regal Madison Square 12, which seems to be the only theatre in my area carrying it. I'm glad it was designed for 1.85:1 since I remember "The Wizard of Oz" looking so ugly with a 1.37:1 image centered on a 1.85:1 screen with black on the sides (top masking for flat/scope was the only adjustment, lens turret had the standard 2 lenses).

Huntsville-Decatur Theatre Info
(Showtimes, Proj. Qual. Ratings, History) http://home.hiwaay.net/~criswell/theatre/

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Christos Mitsakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 242
From: Ag.Paraskevi, ATHENS, GREECE
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 06-15-2000 05:05 PM

We've ben runing Fantasia 2000 in 35mm since May 26.
All it is in 1,85:1 except the Sorcerer's Apprentice which is in 1,33:1 hard matted.
One thing that found OK is that sound is not wandering between the channels like the original Fantasia (an aesthetic desision of the first days of movie stereo) but the orchestra is placed in front with the standard orchestra spread. In the "Pines of Rome" - the flying whales - segment Ottorino Rhespigi demands additional brass players to be placed behind the audience. And very nicely this is presented in the left and right surrounds. Hear the scorcerer's apprentice and see what I mean about sound wandering since this is the mix of the restored Fantasia released in 1990 with the original (or almost original sound paning)
C.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 06-15-2000 06:20 PM

I liked the wandering sound on the original Fantasia. It was never stereo, just an example of things to come if WWII had not happened.

I disliked the 1984 (?) reissue with the re-recorded soundtracks. I cant really explain why, but, I dont.

I saw it again in 1988 or so in a UA theater with a dim xenon lamp, and a kid in the row behind me that repeated: Daddy, when's the cartoon gonna start?

This time, the show affected me the way it always did before. When the final fade out comes, and the lights come up, I get this cold shiver up my back. I can only say one thing: wow.

Can the new one top the original?

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-16-2000 09:07 AM

What a pain in the butt to build up?

All reels were fade from / to black !

Find the changeover marks, count 24 frames.
Find the countdown to start, manually count down from 3 to 0

Paul.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-16-2000 06:30 PM

Mine came from the Technicolor lab in Europe!!! Those guys always do a great job.

Anyone else get their's from that lab?

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-16-2000 07:48 PM

You'll find that most times the black in the leaders/tails are a slightly different shade from the projectable image black. Hold it up to a good work light and you'll find the spot where they change. That way you won't have to count frames.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-16-2000 10:15 PM

Reel changes at fadeouts are really very common in films from the '30s and '40s. If you watch just about any film made in that time period, you can be almost assured that at least one reel change will be at a fade-to-black.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-16-2000 10:41 PM

F.Y.I. The prints of Fantasia 2000 did not have any "color shading", as that was the first thing I looked for. I ended up using the method Paul mentioned. A pain indeed, but at least no one will be arguing over how many frames to chop off for id purposes!

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Robb Johnston
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 147
From: St. Louis Suburbs
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-17-2000 11:45 AM

Regarding the masking for 1.33, When I was re-organizing an old supply room, I found some extra masking. I realized that I have two swaths of masking material that can be hooked over the top masking and hang down along both sides. It is fitted for two of my screens, allowing me to screen a 1.33 print without letterboxing

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-19-2000 11:10 AM

I finally saw Fantasia 2000 last night. Several people mentioned "fadeins/fadeouts" at reel changes. I didn't really notice any total fadeouts last night. If gradual fades to black existed between the segments, they appeared to be lost in the splices. The image was quite jittery during the entire movie (not a print problem since previews were the same way). Reel 2 already had a nice green vertical scratch down the right side for the first few minutes and had many noticeable black scratches there as well, and it was only the 3rd night of its run at that theatre. The DTS time code was faintly visible on the left side of the image and the masking was left in the scope position, although the manager told me all the maskings were operational except for one (in another auditorium). I had to make a choice between seeing the movie in a theatre with sloppy presentation and DTS sound, or in a theatre with optical sound and (usually) less sloppy projection. I chose the digital sound at a particular poorly maintained Carmike location over a presentation at a particular Regal location with poor quality control.

I need to get my laserdiscs out and see how the fadeouts were done in the original Fantasia so I'll know if the splices were done correctly.

Evans A Criswell

Huntsville-Decatur Theatre Info
(Projection Quality, Showtimes, History) http://home.hiwaay.net/~criswell/theatre/

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-19-2000 01:14 PM

If you didn't see them they got chopped out. They're there.

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-19-2000 01:33 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if some lazy ass just found a place at the head or tail where he could still see the image as it was fading in or out and chopped it without bothering to count out even a few frames of black. It doesn't take a whole lot of time, for example, to make a customized ruler with frame graduations. Just label it from 1 to 24 and you can instantly count out up to 1-second lengths.

Also, does anyone else think the "Sorcerer's Apprentice" sequence is less than 1.33? It seems more like 1.2 or so. The same thing is noticeable on "Blair Witch Project".

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-19-2000 01:46 PM

Yes, I did notice that "The Sorcerer's Apprentice looked more narrow than 1.37:1. I was wondering if it was 1.17:1, as if maybe the original used the full height of the image area (MovieTone style) and they transferred all of it rather than the 1.37:1 area. In the theatre I was in, the image definitely appeared more narrow than 1.37:1, and not only that, there was visible image above the top of the black masking at the top of the screen, meaning that the image was even more narrow on the film that I was seeing on the screen. Can anyone running this print now measure the image on the film and verify the ratio? In my previous post, I said "1.37:1" since theoretically, it would be the correct value for that scene.
Some of Disney's early cartoons with sound were 1.17:1, according to a laserdisc box set of Mickey Mouse cartoons that I saw once.

About the fadeouts and the laziness factor, I'll bet anything that's what happened. The person who built up the movie just spliced in places where he could see image. Judging from my observations in my 39 visits to this theatre, I feel sure that laziness was the cause. This particular theatre (Carmike 8, Decatur, AL) has the sloppiest presentations, by far, of any theatre in my area--"The Theatre That Carmike Forgot". One thing that is really disturbing is that some Carmike employees have told me that some of the theatres in some smaller nearby cities in north Alabama are even worse than this one. Surprisingly, though, the Carmike 10 in Huntsville has been very good.

Evans A Criswell http://home.hiwaay.net/~criswell/theatre/

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