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Topic: My Super Simplex is stalling

Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-23-2000 05:40 PM

Well, I just completed rebuilding my ancient RCA 1040 sound head. I hook it up to my Super Simplex and all goes well. Then I start it up again; the lights dim, the motor strains, and it won't go. It just kind of groans.
I give it a couple of winds on the frame advance, fire it up and she goes fine.
Could it be that I have the projector head and the sound head too tightly fit together? There's virtually no play when you rock the gears back and forth. Everythings well greased and oiled.
Anyway, I spent five hours on this thing after putting in a day's work. I think I can hang back until tomrrow. I would appreciate any quick input from some of you pros on the site. Thanks.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-23-2000 10:12 PM

Harry, seperate the two and get back to us. We need to pinpoint if its the motor, sound head gearbox, or projector head thats causing this stall. Most of the gears in a Super would strip if it stalled from a seize up. This may be a motor problem. Check the mesh on all gears in the head and the main drive gear. There should be perceptible slack in the mesh of all gears, a couple of thous. The other thing about these old machines is that sometimes the oil spirals on the shafts and the bores clog with gunk and the shafts do not oil properly and will seize, or start to. Clean all shaft bores with a brass bottle brush about 1/3 larger than the bore you are cleaning, and kerosene. Check all spirals on the shafts to make sure they are clean.
Good luck,
Mark

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-24-2000 06:23 AM

Sounds like a problem with the start winding or start capacitor on the motor.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 06-24-2000 07:11 AM

Or maybe a dirty (carboned) switch inside the motor. This problem is an easy fix compared to all else you have done.

While on this subject, sometimes the toggle switch itself could be dying. I've seen both suggestions cause your problem before.

Tight gears sounds convincing, too.

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Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-24-2000 08:11 AM

Mark, I just had the motor looked at by a specialist, and he said it was really clean and would probably run for another 60 years. I ran it by itself quite a bit with never a problem. Then I hooked it up to my 1040 (with a new gear from Wolk in it) and it ran fine. It was only after putting the Super in line that I have had a problem. I'm hoping it's just that I jammed the main drive gear too tightly against the projector gear. I'm going to relax the fit a bit and see if that helps.

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Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-24-2000 06:13 PM

John Eickhof came to the rescue with an e-mail this afternoon. I needed to loosen up the Super from the 1040 just a tiny bit and back off the fiber gear 1 1/2 turns to give it some play. I ran the machine for one hour. The motor was pretty warm but the shafts and gears were all cool to the touch.

I can't get over how helpful you guys are.
I've just had a very relaxing afternoon working on my gear. (The wife is away at a seminar).

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 06-24-2000 09:48 PM

Well, lets get the party started!

How does the Super sound when running with no film? Smooth and silky?

The first time I ran my Holmes after the rebuild last winter the grease was so thick and cold that the motor bogged down. After a change to a lighter grease mix, there has been no problems. A Holmes does not run smooth and silky.

Hope your Super lasts and lasts. When are you having the big unveiling?

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 06-28-2000 10:27 PM

do you have a picture of your super?

I'll post mine eventually, but please,
don't laugh

Josh

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Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-29-2000 08:14 AM

I'm waiting for my son to come home with the digital camera. The only work left at this point is to finish cleaning the funky old H-10 lamphouse and get a stereo cell for the sound head.
I met a projector tech in the area who's going to come out and check my work for me. If I am going to own a precious few 35mm prints eventually, I want my gear to eat them gently.
While I'm at it, can anyone tell me what I should expect to pay for a pair of 6000 foot arms? I have 3D magazines, but the 6000 foot reels I have seen are way too big to fit in them.
Also I am going to want to treat all of my films with Film-Guard. What's the best way to hook the system up for this when you are using 6000 foot reels?

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Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-29-2000 08:16 AM

Eat them gently? I think I meant treat them gently.

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 06-29-2000 09:31 AM

Regarding the reel arms, when the big reels came along it was very common for people to go to the hardware store and buy some 4 or 5 inch long 1/2" pipe nipples and some lengths of all-thread rod. In other words, after removing the cans, just jack up to spindles you have. In some cases you have to cobble together some sort of guide rollers to replace the ones which might have been in the cans. Also, you obviously have to use the 6000' reels with the 5/16" holes, but it can work just fine for the careful operator.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-29-2000 03:41 PM

Harry,

You might have 7000 or 8000 foot reels and not realize it, which is why they would not fit. a 6000 footer is 24 inches measured across from one edge to the other.

Kelmar film cleaner with a projector mount bracket is the best way to go for cleaning. Just remember, you only need as little of back tension on the top reel as possible to prevent the supply reel from overspinning and bouncing badly. Any more is unnecessary and can damage the film towards the end of the film where the tension is greater.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-29-2000 04:21 PM

Yikes, and don't forget the Film-Guard!
Mark

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-30-2000 06:53 AM

It is very important to carefully set the feed reel holdback tension and takeup reel tension when using large reels. SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 106 specifies that film tension should be less than 4.4 Newtons (16 ozf).

On the feed reel, the holdback tension (brake) needs to be enough to keep the reel from jerking forward, but not excessive when the film is near the reel hub.

The takeup tension needs to be high enough to takeup a full reel without any looseness, but not so high that the film perfs are damaged by the holdback sprocket.

Torque motor feed and takeup are preferred for large reel systems, since tension can be kept more constant through the length of the reel.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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