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Topic: Trailers

Richard Quesnelle
Film Handler

Posts: 67
From: Penetang, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-09-2000 10:16 PM

I have been making up the majority of the films at the theatre lately. I read on a past post about leaving some black leader between trailers to give a smoother look rather than a shooting spree of trailers one after another.

My problem is that I don't know what's the best way to leave some black leader and still know where the frame line is. I noticed that for at the beginning, they scratch part of the emulsion to let you know but there is no such line at the tail.

What is the best method for this?

Thanks
Richard

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-09-2000 10:24 PM

Could someone with a digistal camera take some pictures to make it easier to show where to cut? A picture is worth a thousand words. But I will try to explain.

At the end, at least on US trailers, there are a variety of ways to mark where to cut. Some use four circles one the edge of the last frame:

oooo

I usually cut right before that. Others use lines on the frames (numbers only represent sprockets, not film markings):
1234
l l

And still others just seem to end without warning. Well, not totaly without warning. These trailers-Disney and Dreamworks-have as they're only clue a discoloered frame. At the very end of the black, their will be one frame that is orangish. Cut as close to that as you can.

If anyone with more experience see's a problem with anything I said, tell me, always willing to learn. However this seems to give me just the right amount of black between trailers.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-10-2000 02:12 AM

I'll try and make it a point to come up with a detailed page on where to cut trailers showing the various leaders currently used. Pictures are really THE best way to do it.

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George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-10-2000 08:38 PM

When in doubt, always use your frame counter. You can't go wrong that way.

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Rudy Bergman
Film Handler

Posts: 11
From: Long Beach, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-17-2000 01:27 AM

since our theatre is too cheap to buy us a frame counter... we tape a piece of leader to the build table. we line up the last visible frame of the trailer on the leader and mark the cut line according to the frame lines along the leader. to leave a longer black strip you just repeat the process using the cut mark as a frame line, lining it up with the leader's frame lines.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-18-2000 05:10 AM

...or if you don't want to lay your film on the bench...get an old sprocket and mark out with liquid paper every four sprockets. Then you can just put the film on the sprocket where there's a frame line and roll it along with your fingers until you find the area you want to splice it at.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-18-2000 09:37 AM

John Wilson:

Sorry, but I can't endorse this practice. Using "Liquid Paper" as a marking ink on film (even leader) is not good practice, as it tends to leave flaky debris on the film and projector.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-18-2000 03:37 PM

A Sharpie marker works well though.

However, if the print is a multi track print, you should put little dots in between the non-soundtrack sprocket holes so as not to disturb the next theater which may need one of those digital tracks.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 08-18-2000 07:51 PM

John P:

I don't think that John W. was talking about using Liquid paper to mark anything onto the film itself. I have seen many of these makeshift framing aids in many a theatre's bench drawer, its a 16 tooth sprocket with a white mark painted on it every 4 teeth and across its width, (what John W. was trying to explain that he wanted to do with the Liquid Paper) then attached to a wooden or plastic handle with a screw.... Most of the ones I have seen were attached to a carbon arc hand dowser handle.

Aaron

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-19-2000 12:42 AM

We discussed this in another thread but here is what I remember.

1. |oooo - Frame line followed by 4 circles. Cut right after 4 circles.

2. ^----^---- - Usually there are about 6 - 10 frames of the ^----. Cut right before the sequence starts.

3. 2 frames brown, clear, 1 frame brown. Cut on the frame line of the brown frame. Now use clear leader or turn trailer around in splicer and lay a full length from blade to 2? sprockets short of edge. This will take off 8 frames.

I know there are more, but these are the common ones.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-19-2000 02:29 AM

John P. wrote: >>Sorry, but I can't endorse this practice. Using "Liquid Paper" as a marking ink on film (even leader) is not good practice, as it tends to leave flaky debris on the film and projector.<<

Not the film... ...on the sprocket.

Liquid paper on the film...blech!!!

John...I'm surprised you would think I was capable of such a crime.

PS: Thanks for coming to my aid, Aaron.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-20-2000 06:08 AM

John: Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you were doing.

I thought you were putting a load of Liquid Paper onto the sprocket every four teeth, and then running film on it to transfer the still wet Liquid Paper to the film to mark the film. Why are you using Liquid Paper to mark the sprocket, rather than something more permanent like paint or a scribed mark?

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-20-2000 06:22 AM

It's quick to do and it's nice and white so it makes it easy to see.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-21-2000 05:46 AM

Detailed descriptions and pictures of the ideal spots to cut trailers are now on the "links" page.

John Pytlak, any chance of pitching the idea of standardizing the leaders used for trailers? New Line's are the best.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-21-2000 07:09 AM

I will bring the subject of standardizing trailer leaders and packaging up at the Inter-Society meeting and SMPTE Theatrical Projection Committee meetings at ShowEast. I've already informed our Hollywood lab contacts about the flare that you sometimes see on the black head leader that is supposed to proceed the picture, and can't be cut off because of the 21 frames of sound it contains.

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