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Author Topic: What happens if...
Rudy Bergman
Film Handler

Posts: 11
From: Long Beach, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 08-17-2000 02:02 AM      Profile for Rudy Bergman   Email Rudy Bergman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

are the any reprecussions for sending back a butcherd print? we have sent several prints back in horrid condition and havent heard a peep from the distribution houses or anyone. for instance: when we got the Phantom Menace, one of the projectionists decided he'd build it for me before i came in to do the tear-downs/build-ups... unfortunately he took the ring out before he was done . the print flew off the platter and we spent the better part of two weeks putting it back together. boy, we sure cut out a lot of film... we sent it back.
more recently a different projectionist had the bulb focused too bright and burned and entire print of scary movie.
surely someone is paying for this, right?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-17-2000 02:21 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on many factors. First, if it is an ETS print, you stand a better chance of getting caught. With Technicolor, I doubt it would ever be noticed unless your print was sent to another theater that rejected it.

If you are a first run theater, you've got better odds you will be caught. You can increase those odds by shipping back your crappy print when you have multiple copies FIRST, as that print will probably go to another theater where it may be rejected. By keeping your crappy print and shipping back your good one, your odds of not getting caught are much better...but at the cost of your presentation. If it is rejected by the next theater, you will be paying for it. If you are a sub run, your print will probably never be unwound again.

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Jonathan M. Crist
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Hershey, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-17-2000 10:59 PM      Profile for Jonathan M. Crist   Email Jonathan M. Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whatever happened to accepting responsibility for one's mistakes?

Whether it is Technicolor or ETS it makes little difference. For the most part, both of them just slap a label on the can and sent the print back out again without so much as looking at the film. And the next fellow get stuck with the problem!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Where you stand on an issue depends upon where you sit!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-18-2000 05:14 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
ETS has something like 30 depots. Perhaps the ETS depot near you doesn't pay attention, but I know at least the Dallas branch pays attention.

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Travis Cape
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: St. Louis, MO, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-18-2000 08:27 AM      Profile for Travis Cape   Email Travis Cape   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It has been my experience that you will get billed for the replacement cost of the print. But, we have ignored those bills in the past. Please don't think I am am idiot destroying prints now either. I personally burnt a print of Georgia due to a faulty ammeter. We also kind of burnt a reissue print of Gone With The Wind due to a rag being caught in the exhaust fan. By the way, that projector is now air and water cooled!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-18-2000 10:12 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jonathan M. Crist said: "Whatever happened to accepting responsibility for one's mistakes?"

I agree. Returning a badly damaged print without noting the damage is very unfair to your fellow projectionists. How would you like receiving a badly burned or mangled print from another theatre, and not be able to get a replacement in time for a busy weekend? Let's have some professional pride here!

Brad and Travis are correct that you can dispute (or at least negotiate) being charged for damage if the print is old enough to be scrapped anyway, or if the damage isn't due to gross negligence or carelessness.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Travis Cape
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: St. Louis, MO, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-18-2000 02:17 PM      Profile for Travis Cape   Email Travis Cape   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me clarify the something about the prints that I have damaged. I either have notified the exchange and left a note in the cans. I do however try to avoid paying the replacement cost. Like they ever would strike a new print with the money!

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Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 08-18-2000 02:26 PM      Profile for Tom Kroening   Email Tom Kroening   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Travis: A good way to not burn prints after bulb replacement/adjustment is to hold the film between your fingers as it comes out of the film trap. If you burn yourself after a few seconds then its way too hot. (note you may need to wait a minute or two after the show starts to gauge the heat).

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-18-2000 02:34 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Travis Cape said: "Let me clarify the something about the prints that I have damaged. I either have notified the exchange and left a note in the cans. I do however try to avoid paying the replacement cost."

That was exactly my point! If you know that you damaged a print, it is your responsibility to report the damage. Not doing so is UNPROFESSIONAL, and just hurts any fellow projectionists who may get the print you return. But,it is also your right to dispute any charges for the damage, and negotiate a fair settlement.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-18-2000 02:57 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom Kroening said: "A good way to not burn prints after bulb replacement/adjustment is to hold the film between your fingers as it comes out of the film trap. If you burn yourself after a few seconds then its way too hot. (note you may need to wait a minute or two after the show starts to gauge the heat)."

I have also been thinking of ways to evaluate whether a projector is likely to cause heat damage. One idea for a TEST would be to temporarily remove the shutter, effectively doubling the amount of energy on the film (assuming a typical 2-blade 90-degree shutter). Run a loop of a trailer through the shutterless projector at full power for 100 passes. Take the lens out to prevent possible damage to the lens from the increased heat of the shutterless projector. After projecting it, evaluate the trailer for heat damage by looking carefully at the film itself (warping, embossing, buckling, opalescence) and projected on the screen (blisters, colored spots, "snowflakes", fading, dye migration, etc.). If you see damage, you are at risk for damaging a print with excessive radiant energy, and should be sure your heat filtration, lamphouse focus and alignment, etc. are correct. You may need to defocus the lamp to avoid a "hot spot", or reduce lamp size or current.

Note that black-and-white (silver image) films and color features that deliberately leave silver in the image by non-standard processing, are more prone to heat damage because they absorb more infrared energy. So if you are showing any of these, run a test with similar film.

BTW, don't forget to replace and retime the shutter after you run the test.


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-18-2000 03:55 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
On large auditoriums I have always just made a real short loop of black film (can be some of that special "Warner Reel 1 black" in between the trailer and feature, or grab some off of a trailer. Regardless, I start it up and check back on it half an hour or so later. If there is no hint of blistering, it's safe. Obviously testing with black and white stocks would be preferable, but that trick above is easy enough for any operator at any skill level to perform to prevent damaged film.

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Rudy Bergman
Film Handler

Posts: 11
From: Long Beach, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 08-19-2000 03:24 AM      Profile for Rudy Bergman   Email Rudy Bergman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
in an effort to clear my name...
im just the poor schmo at the bottom rung of the ladder... if it was up to me things might be run differently (i.e. better). as it is they hire people with no experience, dont train them, and dont pay them. i may be the only person on the crew who acctually cares about what goes on in the booth and on the screen, which means i get stuck doing everything. we had one guy who scratched over ten prints, badly. they just fired him after eighteen months... for clogging the toilet too often. sometimes i feel as if im polishing the brass on the titanic.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-21-2000 05:39 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rudy:

In situations like yours, do all you can do to help others understand the importance of good presentation, and hope it makes a difference. As I said in another thread: "Being cheap or lazy are poor excuses for bad presentation. Making an honest mistake and learning from it is acceptable."

Severely damaging a print and sending it on to "the next guy" without reporting it hurts everyone: Your fellow projectionist, who has to scramble to fix or replace the print and may be forced to show a bad print. The audience, who paid to see a good print, and get cheated. The filmmakers, whose art is trashed. The distributor, who will have to replace the print, and may lose a booking. Your theatre, who is likely to get "caught" anyway if the print has to be replaced. And you, for sacrificing your integrity and professionalism.

Sometimes, doing the right thing is tough.


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-24-2000 04:10 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The real problem I have with film manglers is when they do it to arthouse, rep and re-release titles, of which very few copies exist and which cannot be replaced at short notice, if at all.

There's one venue a little way north of London which regularly sends us prints on crossover. I have repeatedly received films which have deep, multiple emulsion tramlines right the way round them, several sections of crushed polyester from a platter wrap, edge damage from uneven rewinding and more besides.

Every time this happens I ring the distributor and tell them that (i) the print's buggered, and (ii) this is the place wot done it (six incidents this year - too many for a coincidence).

What makes it especially bad is that the customers who come to see these films (e.g. the re-release of Rear Window on dye transfer, a number of recent French films, re-release of 'Get Carter' and so on) are film buffs who know what they're talking about and complain, complain, complain if the print is knackered. Several have said they won't be coming back.

You would expect the distributors to get onto the manager of the offending cinema and advise him or her in no uncertain terms that something has to be done. If they have, it hasn't elicited any action.

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 07-07-2001 12:32 PM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Repercussions for sending back a butcherd (sic) print?" Yes, it has happened -- in Utah in 1998.

Yes, it's the theater that censored Titanic and As Good As It Gets in order to please "family values" types. Paramount pulled Titanic and billed the theater for a replacement print ($3,500). Sony pulled As Good As It Gets and blacklisted the theater -- in other words, that theater no longer gets any Sony product.

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