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Topic: Watcher and Factory splices

Robb Johnston
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 147
From: St. Louis Suburbs
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 09-09-2000 10:38 PM

I supervise Booth ops at three locations in Southeast PA, two of which opened the Watcher this week. On Thursday one of my projectionists asked for advice on a chemical splice 8 frames from the end of one of the reels. (The number of the reel escapes me) Tonight I found out at the other location that they too had a factory splice 8 frames from the end of the reel. In both cases we opted to remove the entire 7 frames to avoid having two splices in less than a second.

2 questions, did anyone else run into this problem. I didn't do anything after the first one but with both prints having the same flaw, I am considering sending a formal complaint.

Second, if this happens again, should we go with the two splices, or remove the 8 frames.

Robb Johnston

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 09-10-2000 01:26 AM

OUCH! I'd have to cast my vote for leaving the splice "as is" and preserving the frames. Once the print has been screened, if it is determined there is no crucial audio or something going on in the picture, then it should be broken back down to a large reel up to that splice and the frames chopped out...but screen it first.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-10-2000 09:29 AM

I love people who remove 8 frames from the end of the reel that just does wonders for theatre running changeovers.
2 we have been over this point adnasuem they are no chemical splices estar film can be spliced only in 2 ways tape and ultrasonic
what you have is an ultrasonic splice

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 09-10-2000 10:12 AM

The Watcher is flat so if the splice happend to be on the frame line I would have left it, since you wouldn't see it on screen anyway.

Removing all 8 frames isn't a good idea, I would have either left it or remade the splice. If when it was screened, and it was really distracting, call TES and get a new reel.

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Robb Johnston
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 147
From: St. Louis Suburbs
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 09-12-2000 03:24 PM

For the record the Ultra Sonic Splice (Sorry just the old vocab) was smack in the middle of the frame in both cases. Also, I made sure after the fact that no frames were discarded, they all remained on the tail leader.

Thanks for the advice for future reference though.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 09-13-2000 05:44 AM

As noted in previous threads, "lab splices" on polyester film are made using an ultrasonic splicer that actually "welds" the film by melting the polyester support with ultrasonic energy. Since the splices are made on the unprocessed raw stock in a darkroom prior to the film being printed, the splices are often not on the frameline, and are randomly located in the reel. Undeveloped emulsion trapped in the weld sometimes makes for an discolored splice, that should be removed and remade when making up the print.

"Lab Splices" are an economic necessity, as few reels are exact increments of the 4000-foot or 6000-foot lengths film manufacturers supply. For example, if splices weren't used, printing three 1800-foot reels on a 6000-foot roll of raw stock would leave a 600-foot "short end" worth about $50, greatly increasing the cost of prints.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Wayne Cope
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Micanopy, FL, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 09-13-2000 10:57 AM

I am radically in favor of conserving as much film as possible. My current practice is to leave mid-frame factory (the people who taught me called them "factory" splices) splices alone unless a corner is starting to separate or it's showing signs of loss of emulsion. In the latter case, I take my reliable black Sharpie marker and paint the lapped area where the emulsion is coming off. I find that the dark gray streak is not very noticeable.

I know some film handlers will think this is shoddy work because they can spot the gray streak, but I've tried getting friends and other audience members to spot the streaks and they can't, or if they can, they don't think it's a big deal. My tape splices jump a wee bit more than factory splices (which jump almost imperceptibly) so I like this approach.

A main reason I prefer this method is that I have seen projectionists who will routinely replace others' splices by lopping off the frame on either side. People who work like this often can't even find a factory splice, however. I like to slow down the deterioration that happens over the years. Some of these films are good enough to be shown for a long time. Okay, a few of these films, anyway (:

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 09-13-2000 11:39 AM

Since I work at a theatre without platters, automation of any kind, or any other modernities designed to replace the projectionist, I've got to wholeheartedly thank Gordon for his comment above. Wayne, too. I'm in favor of keeping every frame I possibly can.

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Wayne Cope
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Micanopy, FL, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 09-13-2000 01:01 PM

Thanks, Ari.

Another thought: Years ago, I knew a film handler who was adamant about putting splicing tape on the emulsion side of any mid-frame factory splices, on new prints, to PREVENT the otherwise inevitable removal of emulsion where the splice laps.

(By the way, I love you people. Sometimes it gets pretty lonely in the booth, trying to patch up mistakes made at some other cinemas. I can do a lot with dirt, gum, stray tape, some scratches, mismatched heads and tails, and other problems, but I've yet to figure out how to materialize missing frames or replace lost emulsion.)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 09-13-2000 03:19 PM

I agree Wayne. Unless the splice is physically going to break (rare), I recommend they be left intact. Laying splicing tape over the splice stirs up dirt around it and removing it makes a more annoying jump in the picture and action. It also guarantees the person breaking it down won't think that the splice was at a reel change. The only real solution is to remake them with an ultrasonic splicer, which I now do.

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Wayne Cope
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Micanopy, FL, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 09-15-2000 02:45 AM

In days of old (okay, for me that's the 1980's) I saw glue splicers and splices. I ran into a lot of those splices that were starting to separate, and I was trained on tape splicers, so I didn't think about going with glue. Reading Brad's post just now makes me very interested in ultrasonic splicers. Are they all about $3,000.00, like the Metric unit? Are the prices going to come down?

Now that I think about it, in recent years, I don't find many "factory" splices that are starting to separate. I was not conscious of the transition between glue and ultrasonic. (I wonder how much of the quality is the technology and equipment and how much is the quality of attention and training of the person.)

Also, I'd like to note I just received a print (of The Five Senses) which has a couple of mid-frame "factory" splices. I did my usual black out of the lap area where the emulsion had come off. When screening, on the one splice that is super smooth, I could not even see the gray streak where I had blacked it out. The other splice jumped badly and the grey streak was super visible to me. That was educational. I'll take another look at that one soon!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 09-15-2000 06:29 AM

Ultrasonic splices (on either raw or processed film) work only with polyester base, since the thermoplastic polyester plastic can be "welded" with the localized heating of the ultrasonic transducer. Here is information on the Metric 3001 Ultrasonic Splicer that most labs use, and that Brad uses:
CLICK HERE FOR METRIC SPLICER

There is also a review in the "Reviews" section of Film-Tech.

Cement splices (not "glue") used solvent to dissolve nitrate or triacetate base to make the splice. The formulae also included a small percentage of "binder", often cellulose nitrate. Cement splices do NOT work on polyester base film, which is impervious to solvent. Here is the MSDS for Kodak Fast Drying Film Cement:
CLICK HERE

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John Hope
Film Handler

Posts: 1
From: Durleigh, Bridgwater, Somerset, UK
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 09-15-2000 04:37 PM

Just got home from making up for a charity pre-release preview. Brand new print, and I found a lab splice in just the position described by colleagues. Decided to leave it because it was on the frame line; relieved to discover that those more expert than myself would have done the same!
Interested to hear about pens that render lab splices invisible (well, almost). Have never come across one. Any suggestions from colleagues who work in the UK (I don't fancy trying to import from the US!)

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-15-2000 05:17 PM

You don't have Sanford Sharpies in the UK?

Does anyone still sell blooping ink? My 1934 Neumade catalog (which is on Brad's manual downloads page, in case anyone cares) has assorted types of "Movietone Ink" listed for sale.

Personally, I really dislike lab splices and will remove them if they aren't on a frameline--a good tape splice made with a properly aligned Neumade splicer won't jump at all in most projector gates. I've never seen a lab splice so close to the end of a reel, though, but I have seen them in trailers (?!?!) and countdown leaders.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 09-18-2000 04:57 AM

The position of a "lab splice" made on the unprocessed print film to use "short ends" is usually random. Having multiple prints with a splice in the same location ("8 frames from the end of the reel" originally reported by Robb Johnson on two prints, and also by John Hope in the UK) would be an unusual coincidence, so it may have been a deliberate decision to remove something after the prints were made.

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