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Author Topic: Selsyn motor question
Barry Hans
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-19-2000 11:07 AM      Profile for Barry Hans   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Hans   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a set of old General Electric selsyn motors. There are 5 cloth wrapped wires on each with metal bands labeled R1, R2, S1, S2, S3. I believe the R1 and R2 are the AC to the motor and S1, S2 and S3 are connected between the motors for sync. Does anyone know if this is right? Also is there a ideal speed they should be running at? I plan on taking off my projector motor flywheels and putting on a timing belt pulley to the selsyns. Am I on the right track with this? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-19-2000 11:19 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are on the right track
If the selsyns are double shafted I usually put them where the regular motor is and mout the regular motor underneath the cradle reversed with the timing belt running up the other side (this requires the regular motor to be reversed)
R1 R2 are the ac line usually 110v
The RPM is usually not super criticle but the max is usually on the nameplate

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-20-2000 11:11 AM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What fun, I love interlock systems and Selsyn ones particularly. I would like to expand on Gordon's correct input, but first, a bit of tutoring. "Selsyn" is (or was) a trademarked name of GE's, but like other such names has become generic. Strictly speaking, a Selsyn is not a motor. It is not intended to run by itself and will not do so except under strange circumstances. It really is a funky transformer. Envision three transformer windings mechanically arranged in a triangle just as you would draw a delta connected 3 phase transformer. Now envision another single winding mounted such that it can be rotated within the delta windings. Apply an AC Voltage to the single winding and start measuring the induced voltages in the three outside windings and they will all be different and what's more, as you rotate the single one, the voltages in the delta will change as the magnetic coupling changes. We will now call the single winding connections R1 and R2 as they are the "rotor", and the delta windings are S1, S2, and S3 as they are the stator windings.

Next we tie all of the like marked leads of one Selsyn to one or more other Selsyns and as all of the rotors are connected to the same excitation voltage they will create the same poles within body of the unit. The varying magnetic forces induced in the stator windings will now cause the rotors to align themselves so that they are all in equilibrium and this is what makes the whole thing work. Turn one of them and the others will do their best to follow. There is a lot more to know about these great gadgets, but now you have the basics. Clamp a pair down to your work bench and play with them. If you reverse the rotor connections the armature will flip 180 degrees. Reverse any pair of the stator leads and one will rotate in the opposite direction.

What you want to avoid is operating them in the region where they might become a natural synchronous motor. In the case of the GEs this would be around 3600 rpm as the rotors are two pole devices. In your case, you are probably only going to interlock two like projectors and all you care about is matching two normal drive motors which are probably 1764 rpm or thereabouts.

One further note, until you become more versed in their care and feeding, don't interconnect dissimilar units as they do not all have the same secondary voltages and smoke might result.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-20-2000 07:28 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm no expert with them. I've only farted around with selsyns once in the lab when I was taking classes at Vo-Tech.

When the teacher was explaing them, it took a few minutes to sink in. When he explained that "Selsyn" is an acronym for "Self-Sync", all of a sudden the light went on in my head!

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Barry Hans
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-21-2000 01:39 AM      Profile for Barry Hans   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Hans   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the help! I am setting up for 3D right now and was going to use a common shaft tied to the projector motors by timing belts to maintain "sync" ( at least it seems as that would work ) untill I was offered the use of the selsyns. Is there anything I should do as far as the shutters other than normal timing for 3D?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-21-2000 01:05 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The shutters must open and close togather to brevent massive head aches

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Barry Hans
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-22-2000 09:26 PM      Profile for Barry Hans   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Hans   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand that the shutters have to be " in time " with one another, something tells me this is a dumb question with an obvious answer, but how do I accomplish this? By setting the shutters once and keeping the selsyns powered up all the time so that projector 2 is turning as I thread up Projector 1? That does not seem to make sense to me. or do I have to set the shutters manually each reel?Thanks again for the help!

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-23-2000 10:34 AM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry,
What you need to do is to arrange the ratios between the motor and the Selsyn such that the Selsyn makes one revolution per frame (1440 rpm) and then once you get your gear belts on in sync, the Selsyns will always lock up in the right position.

That ratio can be a tough one depending upon the actual speed (and subsequent gearing) of your projector's drive motor. If you are lucky enough to be using the 1800 rpm synchronous motors so common today, it is a ratio of 1.25 to 1. Set up your pulleys such that the Selsyn rotates one revolution for each 1.25 on the motor. (Another way to figure it is that the Selsyn should make 4 revolutions for every five of the motor.)

If, on the other hand, you are using older motors such as found on SH-100's and RCA's, it turns out that the bizarre ratio is 49 to 40. One does not just run out and buy 49 tooth pulleys. The old National Theatre Supply used to have kits available during the heyday of 3D. Perhaps you can find some in somebody's collection of old stuff. If you do, you will need the matching belts as they were not one of the standard pitches.

Failing that, for whatever pulleys you use, set it up such that one of them does not have flanges and then you can slide the belt off and on. Then, you thread up, align your shutters, energize the Selsyns and slide the belt on.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

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