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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Technicolor strikes again (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Technicolor strikes again
Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-21-2000 11:35 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just love posting these Technicolor disasters.

We got a print of Almost Famous on Thursday. The DTS holder was in the can...complete with busted-in-half clear plastic retainer... but no disks.

I called Technicolor. They said "When that print was shipped, we did not have any in stock, and we are still out of stock today."

Figuring that was their way of saying I was screwed, I called DTS. They said they had disks, but couldn't ship them out without a direct word from Dreamworks. (This must be fairly new...I've called them a couple of times previous, and they've shipped disks with no question.)

So I called my booker, who called Dreamworks, and they called DTS, and the word came back from my booker that the disks would be overnighted.

So yesterday afternoon, I got the disks... FROM TECHNICOLOR.

Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing........

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-21-2000 11:50 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Technicolor probably needed an OK from DTS or Dreamworks before they could ship the disks. But to keep you off their backs, they lied and said they didn't have any.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 07:51 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,
A prime example of why you should have SRD instead. This no disks trick still happens all to often to theaters all over the place. Too many theaters keep the disks and sometimes proudly display their collections of them. If you have a really high end sound system you may detect that DTS does indeed sound better, by a small margin, than SRD does, but SRD tracks don't become seperated from the print. DTS is now a secondary digital format in most booths and Sony doesn't even come into the picture so
ya can't really blame Technicolor for this one, only the dealer that sold you the DTS unit in the first place.
Mark@GTS


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 08:40 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark
DTS is a superior system for it allows multi language and no problems of print wear and no bit pooling and it is technicolors screw up
The screw ups are in the minority for especially in canada the shipping of disks is automatic and I have never heard of any complaints from any US theatres that I have sold dts systems to about not getting disks.
I wonder if your oposition to dts is based on the fact you are not one of there dealers


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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-22-2000 09:16 PM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While I agree that DTS does have a plus side in the "no print wear on soundtrack" department, there are some problems with using this format. First, missing feature discs. While this may be a rare occurance with most first releases of new prints, those poor second-run theatres out there have a hell of a time with this. Second, keeping your entire presentation in digital. How many theatre chains do you know of that will pay to have their policy trailer's sound track placed on the weekly DTS trailer disc? Also, trying to keep programmed only those trailers whose luck it is to still be included on that weekly disc can be a real nightmare. I'm not trying to bash the quality or performance of DTS, but until these problems have been addressed DTS will always be a secondary choice for digital processor.

-Mike

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 10:00 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No Gord,
I knew posting that would get your attention!! And it is not meant to bash Mikes decision to get the DTS unit. Who knows he may have had the unit since the beginning at Jurassic Park.
As far as me favoring them or not has nothing to do with us being a dealer or not. We in fact get them cheaper than most dealers do, as we do with Dolby, since we get a better break from a distributer than if we were a dealer. We are in fact an authorized service center though, and to me that service capability matters more than being a dealer.

We have sold many DTS units to our customers only to have to repair all of them, upgrade drives, and other problems all at the customers expense.

Indeed if that print did not come straight from Technicolor and was routed from another theater it was then not Technicolors fault, it was the previous theaters fault. The seperate disk is the one major drawback of the DTS system for the average theater owner and a huge drawback for the move over/second run theater. While it may support multi language that has little or no meaning in most places with the exception of large format, and even there with limited use. There is not a large format theater around here that runs multi language.
Indeed DTS has made the readers more reliable but only with many upgrades and modifications. All at the customers expense. That is what has made it a secondary format.
Mark


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-23-2000 08:27 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually DTS is more reliable to second run theatres as they don't have to deal with abraided SRD or SDDS tracks tha then have high error rates

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Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-23-2000 09:22 AM      Profile for Tom Kroening   Email Tom Kroening   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm going to have to agree with mark on this one. All the dts units I have worked with have had some sort of problem. Mark, im not sure if you installed the DTS at the rock but one of them needs repair. At the theatre I work at now we have 8 dts units. 1 is out for repairs, and 2 of the have at least one bad drive. While SRD has its problems, it is the more popular format and i've never heard of an SRD track being seperated from the print ; ) I see the problem of theatres not returning disks. There's a stack of them in the booth right now. (as i do not break down prints i usually only build them, i can only keep reminding the other manager to include the disks).

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-23-2000 10:09 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom,
Yes, I did install the units at the rock. One is a year or so newer than the other but it does not surprise me that one is bad. I hear your story all the time, and it's odd that I got a call from a customer just this morning that is going to bring his 6D down for overhaul on Wednesday. Man, I better start stocking upgrade kits here at GTS! I love ! All that comes to mind is Ca-ching...Ca-ching.

Gord, Its odd that you are the only one here hat does NOT have any DTS woes and the ONLY one that does have Dolby woes........perhaps your customers never use their units.
Mark


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-23-2000 10:53 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not to add fuel to a fire...;

We have two DTS units. I find them to be very reliable, but have had a few problems with them over the past three years (to me, a "problem" is when you must run a show in analog because the digital unit won't work.)

On the other hand, our three SR-D units (over three years) have never failed.

I know that's not very many for a sampling, but....

Also, I'm sorry to say, people at the theater I work at seem to make it their mission in life to forget to include the DTS disks on ship-out night. At least once a month, I find disks for films that were returned. So, while I really like DTS for techinal reasons, missing disks does seem to be a real problem.

To me, not getting DTS disks is just like not getting a reel of film. Film exchanges do not say; "We are still out of stock of reel one today. Sorry." I'm paying the film exchange to deliver my print -complete-, including disks. It's bad enough they don't want to inspect prints (to verify the disks are there,) but don't give me this, "disks are not my problem," garbage.

Of course, the film exchange should then go back and fine the theater that forgot the disks in the first place.


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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-23-2000 11:20 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To clarify a few things about my original post:

We are an off-the-break theatre (usually) and we have played hundreds of DTS movies since getting the system in '94.

Only twice have I been totally unable to get disks at all, and only a handful of times (less than ten, I reckon) have I had to call Tech, ETS or whoever to get disks.

The reason I bought DTS had nothing to do with anything but the price. At the time, Dolby was on some movies, DTS was on others, and Sony was just coming out. It was a choice between spending $5500 (which I had) and $12,000 (which I didn't).

Finally, after over six years of use, I have had zero repairs on this DTS unit. I've had the occasional goofup (sound dropping out, etc.) but it's so rare that it's not a problem. Would I buy DTS again? Yes, but only if they give me a free jacket!

I am amazed that theatres keep the disks. WHAT FOR? Back in the NFS days, I once forgot to send some disks back with a print, and I got a phone call asking for them. THAT'S what's needed, along with a stiff penalty for theatres that don't send the disks back.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-23-2000 12:15 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Mike on the stiff penalty. Theaters should definately be charged for the disks if they are not returned. I know that DTS has made attempts to rectify this problem but it still has a way to go to make it perfect.
Sure I would sell a DTS unit to a theater but only as a secondary system.
Mark

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-23-2000 12:37 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DTS sounds spectacular, that's all that matters to me. We rarely have problems with our 6 units.


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-23-2000 12:40 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no idea why theatres fail to return DTS disks. The only thing that I can think of is that it's really easy to forget to take the disks out of the DTS unit if the next film to play in a given theatre isn't going to play in DTS (in which case one would obviously have to remove the disks from the old movie to insert the ones for the new movie).
Still, that's no excuse for not returning them to the distributor. I don't believe that I have ever personally failed to return a set of DTS disks, but I have accidentally left them in the DTS player when moving a print from a DTS house to an SR-D house... (though they eventually would get found when the print moved to a DTS house or was shipped out.

The only problem that I've had with DTS (the product) is that the units with the bad drives will occasonally lock up in the middle of a show. Rebooting the players between shows seems to fix this problem, though it should be unnecessary. In general it's a good system and I do like the idea that it's based on commodity hardware which is generally reliable and not horribly expensive to repair/replace. Sure, DTS isn't perfect, but it sounds good and costs less than SR-D even with the drive upgrades, etc.

If I were a second-run theatre, though, I'd go with SR-D because of the "missing-disk" problem, but that doesn't mean that DTS is a bad system by any means. (Hey, they support 70mm, which is more than SR-D or SDDS can do!)


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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-23-2000 01:11 PM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't understand the argument from Technicolor that it wasn't their fault. I agree with John W that a theatre is paying for a complete print. A film with timecode and no discs is NOT complete. If the discs weren't returned to Tech then it is THEIR responsibility to replace them. CD's are extremly cheap to make, there is no excuse for any print to be delivered without discs, if it is DTS encoded. I also agree that theatres that don't return the discs should be fined, if you don't include a reel than you get it trouble. Not returning the DTS discs is just as bad.

As far as the other argument about which system is more reliable, DTS or SRD. DTS is more reliable, and here is why I think so. DTS had some harware problems yes, but get the upgrade and the problem is solved. When DTS is operating correctly, it is flawless. SRD, while not having hardware problems, that I am aware of, has serious soundtrack problems. That's something that you can't just fix, it is ever persistant. Your soundtracks will occasionally go bad and there is no fix for that. I would rather have a system that doesn't have sound dropouts, and when the system isn't working just make sure your analog is working properly. There is nothing wrong with running a movie in analog, it can and should sound amazing as well.

I personally don't think that every movie that comes out actually benifits from a digital soundtrack. Huge special effects movies and action films, yes. But not everything NEEDS to be in digital anyway.


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