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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Christie platter catching "fire" (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Christie platter catching "fire"
Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-04-2000 01:10 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am never here when this happens but its happened 2 weeks in a row both on the same screen (and I think the same platter decks) This is a christie AW-3 with removeable brains. 2 weeks in a row always on a friday matinee the second running of a new print. The payout platter brain wraps. The take-up platter keeps tring to spin! The motor still tries to spin the deck but the deck cannot move because the polyestar film is tight to the point of stretching. The motor still trying to spin the deck causes an unbelievaible amount of friction and the rubber part that contacts the side of the deck starts to smoke and fills the whole booth with thick black smoke!!! why is this happening! shouldnt the motor stop when the arm is all the way in towards the tree? all the others do! I though maybe it was getting hung up on something but I cannot recreate this can anyone please help! this is nuts! never had problems like this with the Potts platters i used to work on! Thanx I know all you master film techers can help (I hope! )

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-04-2000 01:36 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Right off the bat, I'm wondering if the finger on the graduated filter inside the arm isn't catching. This is a common problem with the arm slamming full throttle into the motor and continuing to run. Remove the arm of the platter's end cap and shine light into there and look as you manually (platter power off) move the takeup arm. See if it is catching. If so, remove the platter deck, remove the axle (4 bolts), and using an allen wrench, move the filter ever so slightly up or down (whatever is necessary).

This could be cause by other things, but that one seems to be the prime reason.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-04-2000 08:06 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm in agreement there.

Do a FULL function check on that platter right away. In the manual, there are a list of things you should do when you install the platter. Do what it says. If there are ANY malfunctions, even little ones, get the platter fixed.

The reason I say that is because you mention that you're having brain wraps. That tells me there's more going on than meets the eye. There may be a "hidden" problem causing the one you are telling us about.

If you don't know how to do this call your Tech. or somebody who does know. I would go into more detail but I don't know how much you know. It's not "hard" but you have to do it right.

Christies CAN be good platters IF you keep them maintained correctly. (It's just that there is a LOT of maintainence to do on them!)

I've had people in my area really F*** up platters trying to "FIX" them.


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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-04-2000 11:21 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well it happened again today and I was there to witness the horror. Because im a nice guy I was covering the box while someone was on a break when a customer comes out and sais that the film is burning on the screen so I yelled for someone to take over box and myself and the head supervisor ran up to a booth full of smoke.and shut the platter off and fixed the film. I was talking about it today with the GM you see at my theatre everything is a brainwrap it was actually a tailwrap causing the problem. the projector is in an addition to the booth that was not very well designed and static is an issue. I think brad is on the right track and I will print this out and give it to my boss.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-05-2000 01:48 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
For the time being, whenever you must run a film on that platter giving you constant trouble without a projectionist supervising...remove the brain from the takeup platter and see if that gives you any relief until you can fully diagnose the problem.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-06-2000 08:27 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My feelings on the take up slamming into the motor is that your platter timing is off. When it happens to me, I re-adjust the timing and the arm then only travels about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way over.

Brad. I don't think the finger would have anything to do with this. It could only catch when the arm tries to go back though.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-06-2000 09:48 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

I've seen it happen. In fact, the theater I'm at had about half a dozen that were catching and slamming into the show. A simple raising or lowering (can't remember which) of the led filter solved the problem.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-06-2000 10:49 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well I think all of our platters need to be retimed. Today i had to stick a christie stick-a-poo in the brain of one of them so that saving grace wouldnt go flying off the platter. Ill let you know if this works

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Mike Jones
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 108
From: Birmingham, MI, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 11-08-2000 05:01 PM      Profile for Mike Jones   Email Mike Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
are you all a bit curious as to why you're having problems with your prints going crazy? well, here's the answer. Its cold. The building's heating system is kicking in. You are constantly licking your lips because they're so dry from the hot moisture free air that's being forced throughout the building. This should tell you something. You need humidifiers, yep, and if you already have them... maybe you need more. I also reccomend going to radio shack and purchasing "humidity dectors" for your booth area. they range between $10-$30 each. I just put some up and noticed the same day that our humidity levels are way low. humidity levels should be betweeen 40% and 60%. right now we're in the lower 30s and have not had any problems so far this year. Last year, it was a mess, thrown prints almost everyday!

That's the truth!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-09-2000 07:50 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Prints made on KODAK VISION Color Print film having Kodak's conductive anti-static base, and processed using the anti-static process additive that Kodak recommends should have much fewer problems with "static cling". As Mike Jones notes, this year things are alot better. But occasional incidents can still occur with other films, especially when booth humidity gets too low.

Here are some useful articles, published before Kodak developed the new VISION Color Print film:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/september99/pointers.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/september98/pppp.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/may97/pytlak.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/faq/static.shtml

My article in the September 2000 issue of Kodak Cinema Notes (H-50-56) suggests other reasons for platter problems, such as platter timing, excess moisture, and surface contamination with oil or tape residue. Not all that sticks is static.

Using the suggestions in these articles (especially regarding humidity control) should help reduce "static cling", even on other manufacturers films that do not have the conductive anti-static coating, or processed by labs that aren't using the antistatic process additive recommended by Kodak.

Many on Film-Tech have reported that proprietary film treatments like FilmGuard also help reduce static problems on release prints.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-10-2000 12:08 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well it hasnt happened for a few days so I think it has something to do with prints that have just been made-up I always inspect the film and at the bench while I put it on 6k reels. then I load these on to the platter. i do run the MUT at close to full speed could this somehow cause more statis? John that was a great article I remember reading it in film notes I agree that people use static as an axcuse way too much! And about the FG I am waiting for it to come in my boss tells me its on the way!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-10-2000 04:43 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Stopping and starting the MUT during buildup from conventional shipping reels will definitely cause payout problems on that first run. Building as you are doing to 6000 footers and then loading is much better. On the Christie MUT (the older one, not sure on the newer one) I don't recommend loading any faster than the 2:00 position, assuming you have maxed out the speed control's trimpot internally. The slower the better. Loading is generally not much of an issue. While the first half of the movie is loading, you build the second half. While the second half is loading, you build up the first half of the next movie on the rewind bench. Thus, you really don't need to run any faster than 1/2 speed to keep up with your inspections at the rewind bench.

For panic situations regarding static, a couple of paper towels folded over on themselves to make them more plush (or webril wipes) with FilmGuard sprayed thickly on them works excellent. Just start the platter spinning (use the MUT or stick something in the brain to make the deck spin) and hold the wet towels at the center of the film roll and slowly wipe from center to edge and then take-up the film "upside down" so you can wipe the other edge on the next show. The static will be gone. This isn't the best way to take full advantage of FilmGuard, but many theaters without the budget to buy a Kelmar media cleaning machine use this procedure once a week to eliminate static. (Do not spray the FG directly onto the print. It will make a mess on and around the platter and not accomplish an even coating.)


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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-10-2000 11:11 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish I could do that Brad but the FG still hasnt arrived!!! we have a media cleaner so that should not be a problem. I WANT FILM GUARD!!! oh well someday if im lucky maybe I'll get to experience the myrical of Film Guard! better yet brad we have to rewind benches so I can build 2 movies to 6k reels at once! Start the first one and inspect for about half the reel then start the second movie! But you see no matter what I do to increase my "Productivity" the managers still want the booth work done faster! Oh well The American Multiplex!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-10-2000 11:51 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess you should stop wasting their time with inspections and be sure to use masking tape for reel joints. That'll make breakdown faster.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-11-2000 12:50 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,
Why even make-up the prints no one wants to see the movie they dont come for that! they come to buy concessions and watch the slide advertising! Don't you know that! LOL! actually my company is not that bad at all! The GM really cares about the presentation the other managers well. There great MANAGERS.

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