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Topic: Nitrate films for sale on Ebay!!

Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-01-2000 12:02 PM

I couldn't believe it when I saw it, but these folks are actually selling Nitrate films on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=510733426

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John Schulien
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 12-01-2000 12:39 PM

Not a first!

I bought a "35mm toy projector with films" off ebay a while back. (A hell of a cool toy for 1919; the projector, although made of pressed metal and wood, features a working geneva movement.)

Sure enough, the films turned out to be nitrate. The oldest of the three has a date code of 1917! It also defies identification. The intertitles have some of the characters' names on them, and I could not find a match in the AFI catalog.

Apparently, the companies that sold those early toy projectors simply purchased old silent films as surplus from film distributors, cut them into 100' lengths, spooled them up, and sent the firebombs^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Htoys out for kids to enjoy!

But given that some 90% of all silent movies are now completely lost, the seller is probably correct -- whatever movie this clip is from, odds are it's the last copy in existance.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2000 12:56 PM

Just to clear things up, yes the person selling this is in Littleton, but NO it is not me nor anyone I know.

Perhaps John could send over a nice letter from Kodak with some safety and legal issues on that and recommend a film preservation archive that it could be donated to before it decides to self-ignite on an airplane.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-01-2000 01:40 PM

Notice the bidder, though; it's Cooper Graham from the Library of Congress's film division in Dayton, CO. I'm sure he'll find a good home for this, assuming some moron who has never heard of nitrate film doesn't try to outbid him.

The film and can actually look to be in decent condition...I would have at least expected that the can would have rusted by now. Still, I wouldn't want even that small amount of nitrate film anywhere near my apartment. I have a few feet of nitrate head and tail leader and I don't want any more nitrate film, no matter how good it looks when it is projected (and IB Tech nitrate _is_ stunning!).

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 12-02-2000 12:23 AM

About 10 years ago While rummaging thru some very old stuff in the theatre attic I came across a small box with 2 small film cans containing what I thought to be old trailers on cores. One was just a completely crumbled 100 ft. or so of nitrate, the other held a roll about 10inches in diameter. My co worker and I spooled it off onto a reel, giving it a good look over while doing so. After some consideration and after getting a fire extinguisher and a bucket of water I ran it. It seemed to be comedy about a wedding but it seemed to be missing something from the beginning. We contacted the AFI to see if they were interested in it, they were, and picked it up a week or so later. It turned out to be the only copy of a 10 minute comedy named "Cracked Wedding Bells" known to exist. It was made in 1911. The first 3 or so minutes were missing but the rest was intact. The original we donated has been preserved and a copy is available to be seen at AFI. How came to be in our attic is still a mystery as it predates the theatre by 17 years and all who would know are long gone.

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Brett Rankin
Film Handler

Posts: 78
From: Sierra Madre, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-03-2000 03:10 PM

I have (had) a full can of old snipes, tails/heads, etc in nitrate. Neat stuff, too- "coming attractions" "our comedy feature" war department notices, drive safely, etc. All dating back to the 1930's-40's. Some IB, too. Problem is I can't find them and it's making me very, very nervous. One night when I see flames shooting out from under my bed I'll remember where I put them...

Brett

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 12-04-2000 08:59 AM

Kodak has quite a bit of information about the proper handling of cellulose nitrate film on its website:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/about/environment/booklet.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/storage1.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/storage2.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/storage3.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/h1/identification.shtml#base
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/about/environment/nitrate.shtml

Nitrate film is classified as a hazardous material, and should NEVER be shipped by air, carried on public transport, or mailed. It should NOT be stored in public or occupied buildings.

As Bill Enos notes, if you find nitrate film that still seems to be in good condition, immediately contact a recognized film archive to determine if it has historical value:
http://www.afionline.org/preservation/about/links.html
http://www.eastman.org/10_colmp/10_index.html
http://www.cinema.ucla.edu/
http://lcweb.loc.gov/rr/mopic/

NEVER project nitrate film unless you have a booth certified for nitrate use (As I believe Bill Enos' Byrd theatre is).

If the film has deteriorated beyond restoration (acrid powder, oozing, severe stickiness), it is especially hazardous, and should be immersed in water and disposed of properly by hazardous materials authorities.

There are photos of a nitrate fire in a projector in the "Pictures" section of Film-Tech: "Nitrate Film Fire-AFI Theatre at the JFK Center in Washington, D.C. March 1975 ."

One of the worst disasters in history is the Cleveland Clinic Fire of 1929, caused by burning nitrate x-ray film:
http://www.ccf.org/act/frames/chp3/chp3_1.htm

"Nitrate won't wait".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 12-04-2000 01:10 PM

Thanks for the nitrate info, John. Coincidentally I just came across a nitrate short (some kind of university promo)in my collection of old trailers and such. I've got about 12000' of random footage to wade through, so I suspect I may find more. The Eastman House will be getting a call soon...

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