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Author Topic: CP 500 volume changes are audible???
John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-13-2000 05:05 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Every time our 500 does an audio level change, it makes a slight tick...tick...tick in the sound...eg 4.0 to 5.6...tick...tick...tick...etc.

What have the installers missed?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-13-2000 07:38 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you checked the rack for a time-bomb? Those sound installers may not have been paid for their last job.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-13-2000 09:14 AM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Or could one of the major chains have planted it there?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-13-2000 09:54 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is triggering the level changes? Are you turning the fader manually, or is it being controlled by an automation system? If it's related to the automation, there might be some leakage from the automation controller. A lot of theatres that are running changeovers have an annoying "pop" at every sound changeover which is apparently related to lack of shielding of the relay that controls the c/o.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-13-2000 12:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John, you are running that CP500 serially, correct?

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Peter Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Collingwood, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-14-2000 06:14 AM      Profile for Peter Martin   Email Peter Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a fault that occurs in some CP500's.

It can be particularly bad with the microphone input where the "tick" becomes a very loud "chirp". I seem to recall that the problem is caused by a fault causing digital leakage into the VCAs in the audio output stage and requires a board replacement. I have seen this problem in brand new processors out of the box.

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Peter Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Collingwood, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-14-2000 06:18 AM      Profile for Peter Martin   Email Peter Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, here's another one for all you CP500 lovers.

Did you know that the CP500 volume control does absolutely nothing when you turn it above 9.2?

That's right folks, it's a Dolby fake. The maximum volume from a CP500 is 9.2 not 10.0

You can turn it up to 10.0 but the volume - well she don't go up with it. Wonderful technology.

Want to know why?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-14-2000 06:44 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You have only discovered half of the volume range....it doesn't go down to 0.0 either...it stops in the 3s though the numbers indeed go the full range. For some reason, I seem to remember the range being 3.3 to 9.3

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-14-2000 09:06 AM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter: Why is the maximum volume 9.2 and not 10, or for that matter, 11?

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Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 12-14-2000 03:04 PM      Profile for Tom Sauter   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Sauter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its not metric, its imperial

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-15-2000 01:24 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John P.: LOL!

Scott: The 500 is controlled by AMX automation. However, they also make the 'tick' by adjusting the volume on the front of the unit.

Brad: By 'serially', if you mean with automation then that's correct. If not, more clarification needed.

Steve: I can get ours down to 2.6, but after that it drops off at a rapid rate.

It would be nice if a transition from format to format could be 'cross-faded' as the Panastereo units do.

Michael: Yeah, but these go up to ten.


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Peter Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Collingwood, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-15-2000 03:20 AM      Profile for Peter Martin   Email Peter Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I admit I didn't know about the "minimum" volume with the CP500.

What I do know is the the maximum of 9.2 or 9.3 (you may be right there) has to do with the limited available dynamic range of the CP500, compared with an analogue processor like a CP65.

Because noise in a digital system is much more objectionable (when it is audible) than in an analogue processor, the normal operating level within the processor has to set to a higher level (relative to the system noise) than in an analogue processor. And because the CP500 has a total available dynamic range of only 92db, there just isn't enough left to allow the volume control to be boosted all the way to 10. So the CP500 firmware allows the digits to go all the way to 10 so operators feel familiar with (and warm, friendly towards) the processor, but the actual increase in volume is stopped when you get to 9.2 (or is it 9.3?)

In other words a CP500 has only about 6dB "in hand" when the fader is at 7.0, whereas any other processor has a full 10db available when you turn the volume all the way up to 10.

It's just another way that Big Brother keeps "the great unwashed" (you and me) in check.

One of these days the latter will realise that digital was invented to make manufacturing cheaper easier (and hence more profitable) for companies like Dolby, and not at all for the stated purpose of improving sound quality.



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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-15-2000 04:26 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

If you disconnect the automation cable that is driving the fader through that serial cable and control the volume via "remote fader", your problem may go away.


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Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 12-15-2000 08:12 AM      Profile for Tom Sauter   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Sauter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If disconnecting the serial cable solves the problem, then is the ticking a product of the CP500 or AMX?

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Peter Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Collingwood, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-15-2000 05:37 PM      Profile for Peter Martin   Email Peter Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad

What brings you to the conclusion that the ticking in John's CP500 is caused by the connection to the serial port?

I seem to recall that the John's cinema has at least two older CP500s which are also controlled serially by Multimation and they don't tick, do they John?

Like I said, this is a fault. Suggesting removing the serial control cable and going back to the primitive "remote fader & parallel format control method" to fix it is like fixing a faulty lens turret by throwing out the turret and going back to hand changing the lenses.

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