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Author Topic: the end of projectionist trade?
Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 03-20-2001 02:23 PM      Profile for Carl King   Email Carl King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, well. Based on what I saw in the pics of Showest we film projectionists could be in real trouble real soon. It looks like everybody and their uncle had a digital projection system for sale. Now Quallcomm and Technicolor are giving 1000 of them away.

If this technology takes off( and I can't see why it wouldn't) there won't be any film used in your average cinema within 10 yrs or less.

Scary thoughts.

Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 03-20-2001 02:29 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When digital projection surpases the quality of film-as it eventually will-I will welcome the changeover (no pun intended). Since I've never watched a digital presentation, I can't say if we're at that point yet or not.

Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 03-20-2001 03:52 PM      Profile for Tom Kroening   Email Tom Kroening   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its going to be a long time before film isn't used. Standards in DLP have to be adopted. We would need a system of enormous bandwidth to deliver these movies (probably better to deliver on cd's). There still must be a tech to do system maintenance. Im sure most projectionist will become managers save maybe one to be the tech. I don't think we have to worry just yet... give it 5 - 10 years.

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-20-2001 04:19 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Tom is very likely to be correct.

I heard yesterday that video projecion comes under the trade of the International Brotherhood of Electricians.


Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2001 04:28 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's hard to tell what system, if any, will replace film projection. Obviously, whatever system that winds up being, will have to be more desirable in all concerned aspects, rather than just one or two. In other words it's "package" must be more attractive than film's "package". It might not be the current crop of video projectors that overthrows film.
Those of us who were around in the 50's might recall how "our friend the atom" was going to do just about everything for us, cheaper and better. Well we got down that road away and found out there were "some problems" and so that idea slipped by the wayside, along with jet packs, so you could fly to work, or flying cars. Watch those news reels (I think they're from Popular Science) and you'll see a whole pile of predictions about how life will be, way up in the year 1980 or so. Quite a laugh.
All this digital everything is all exciting and "buzzy", but that doesn't mean that there won't be a deadend to it too, somewhere down the road. There is a possibility it will "win", but not a certainty. Personally, I think they'll have to go away, before they'll find a "package" that will beat film's "package".

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 03-20-2001 04:58 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They said in the 1980's that Video cinemas would take over 35mm projection within 5 years, but we all still run film today.

The present DLP video system will no doubt be superseded with a better and improved system than the present DLP projection system, so my own view is that we are a long way before E cinema takes over film.

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-20-2001 05:02 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The world is in a constant state of change. Nothing lasts forever. Unfortunately when you try to replace something as cool as film with something that, in its current state, is clearly inferior, well it really hurts. It's kinda like listening to MP3's as opposed to the uncompressed CD tracks (or even well maintained LP's). Do you honestly think a 128kbps MP3 sounds CD quality? Of course not! But it is easier to deal with than a CD and you can fit more of them in the same amount of space.

The same is true with digital projection. It is promised to make everything easier and more profitable, but they put quality low on the list of priorities instead of on the top. But eventually the quality WILL surpass, by far, 35mm film. Eventually 70mm as well I believe. Who knows what the future will bring?


George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 03-20-2001 05:42 PM      Profile for George Roher   Email George Roher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
E-Cinema won't be the main thing responsible for killing the projectionist trade. Ignorant and incompetent theatre executives who refuse to employ projectionists are the bigger and more immediate problem.

Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2001 06:49 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with George and will add to it the idea of apathy on behalf of the movie goer. If they will settle for less, they will be given less. I guess it will be the same mentality that let Beta slip away infavor of being able to get more movies at lower resolution on a single tape, that will help to kill F-Cinema.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2001 08:41 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
lets see what percentage of the total number of screen in northamerica would a 1000 units represent
maybe more important what percentage of worldwide screens?
One must remeber that the foriegn market often represents more income than the domestic one
AT the 300,000.00 per screen it is a wayoff in the present ecconomy

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-20-2001 10:24 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Film Done Wrong" invites unfair criticism like "See the movie, not the film". We all know that "Film Done Right" will be hard to beat for years to come.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Frank Rapisardi
Film Handler

Posts: 96
From: Methuen, MA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-21-2001 05:19 AM      Profile for Frank Rapisardi   Email Frank Rapisardi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw a demo at the Showcase Cinemas in Randolph Ma. Not perfect yet;but it is coming! Projectionists may soon be put on the endangered list. I was told that once resolution improves a bit more as well as what to do about black levels and pixels film will be a thing of the past!Remember;we are using technology that goes back to to very beginnings of cinema presentation.Other than wide screen and color and digital sound not much has really changed over the years.We had all better learn about this within the very near future;or begin thinking about other jobs.Sorry! But this will happen.The studios stand to be the big winners with this.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 03-21-2001 08:02 AM      Profile for Aaron Haney   Email Aaron Haney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With digital cinema, instead of a projectionist, theaters will likely need a sysadmin to keep things running. That will probably end up being more expensive, not less, than the way things are now, at least as far as theaters are concerned.

I see a lot of people using the terms DLP and "digital cinema" interchangably. Digital cinema does not necessarily mean DLP. Weren't people saying in other threads that, based on the demos at ShoWest, JVC's D-ILA technology is already superior? And then there's laser projection probably coming in the not too distant future. DLP does not have everything all sewn up by any means (I hope).

John, I agree that TI's slogan "see the picture, not the film" is an unfair slight. How about a little truth in advertising ... "see a bunch of over-sized pixels, not the film".

Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 03-21-2001 10:24 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There will be a projectionist in some capasity for some while now. These things are not going to take over overnight. The projection trade is almost gone anyway. But that does not mean film can not be done right.

I am non union and I care about everything that goes on in my booth. I train everyone who works in my booth. I wish I could maintain all the booths in town. Even when film is gone someone still has to have the training and knowledge to maintain the new equipment on site. This has to be the way because it takes the stress off of the manager in keeping his screens up and running. Nothing is perfect and problem free in any technology. I think learning some of this knew technology would be interesting. But the technology needs to be the best it can be and not require upgrades for at least ten years before I will consider it right for it to effect my job.


I do not think our industry the exhibitors should accept that either. I have been doing this a long time, not as long as some of you in here, but long enough to know what people want. People like to be able to hear their movie without being blown out of their seats. They like their movie in focus. That is the two most comon complaints. Only a couple of times has anyone complained about scratches. It was on a movie I had received in that condition and was unable to get a replacement print. Only once have I heard anyone complain about seeing dirt on the picture. I was watching Independance Day at one of the other theaters. It was having shedding problems and during the desert scenes it looked like a black speck invasion.

The one thing that I see could be the most anoying thing in the new dlp technology is some of the little tiny mirrors becoming defective causing the black continuous specks in the picture no matter what you are showing. THese chips are probably the most expensive things in the unit to replace. My point being we the exhibitor must be wise in our decisions before making this jump.


People may not really care at all. They are the ones that are going to be hit with even higher ticket and concession prices.

The people I feel the most sorry for are those who run their on smaller chains who enjoy doing this buisiness who will not be able to afford the new technology and all the drive-ins that will shut down because they can not get the propper light levels and pictures on the screen to look right because of the long distances and size of the screens. People at DTS who will not be making DTS units because the digital signal will be with the downloads. Just a lot of sad faces I see in our future. It makes my heart hurt.


Just a note I have edited this post so it can be read more easily. Sorry about any spelling errors. For the record I do not drink. This was all written in a concious state.


John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-21-2001 10:46 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IMHO, digital cinema technology will continue to improve, especially with regard to resolution, color reproduction, and contrast ratio. But there are many unanswered questions about who will pay, and if it will really produce overall savings and better quality in the real world.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion



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