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Author Topic: Will I hear anything?
Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 04-02-2001 05:34 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Risking another dumb question, here goes. I like to thread up a trailer once in a while in my XL's, but my sound rack is still a mystery. So I'm wondering, in the interim,
where does the sound become audible? The exciters are working through the SH-1020's, I'm wondering if I connect the outputs (it's just mono) to a small amp and speaker, will I hear it? Or does it require the pre-amps and everything else?

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-02-2001 06:23 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
You will need a preamp to bump the signal up to line level for your amplifier in order to hear anything distinguishable. Just like a component turntable. I have an old radio shack mixer with a built-in phono preamp, but don't ask me where it is!

You oughtta get a little preamp and use a drive-in speaker until your sound rack is complete!

Ken Layton is here somewhere ...


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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-02-2001 06:44 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Feed the solar cell to the microphone input of an amplifier.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-02-2001 07:15 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In addition, parallel the solar cell with a 560 ohm resistor if you use a microphone amplifier.

This will provide proper loading and impedance matching of the solar cell to the pre-amp.

A 1/4 or 1/2 watt resistor will do.


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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-02-2001 10:07 PM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm somewhat confused....

You mean you can go "directly" from the solar cell to a pre-amped turntable input on one of my DJ mixers? Where does the "cinema processor" come into play. I was always under the assumption that I had to have a cinema processor of some type to decode the output of the solar cell?

If this is truly the case.... why would I bother with a cinema processor in the first place?

In essence.....
I could feed the projector sound to "Channel 1", and CD players (you other guys refer to it as "non-sync")to "Channels 2 & 3", and still have the Microphone inputs available for paging and announcements. I could feed field speakers with the "Record Output", feed the transmitters with the "Master Output" and feed the concession stand and booth monitor with the "Booth Zone/Cue" output. Is this practicle or even feasible?

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-02-2001 10:21 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
basically any low impedance microphone mixer will provide sufficent gain for the solar cell to drive a power amp.
It will not provide the correct frequency response though

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 04-02-2001 10:25 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry, that's kind of the idea I had (at least for playing around in the garage). At a recently re-opened drive-in I visited last year, the owner had replaced scads of amps and racks for the former carbon/changeover field speaker/AM setup. He literally had the wires out of the SH-1020 to the FM transmitter with perhaps a small pre-amp, I didn't see it. The transmitter itself could accomodate the mic and non-sync inputs I think, and his booth monitor was a transistor radio hanging on the wall!

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-02-2001 10:52 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
AFAIK, if you're going for just left and right, you don't need to decode anything. If you want center or surround, you need a CP to decode the SVA matrix, but that's a strange idea for use at a drive-in.

At the drive-in I did, we didn't use field speakers, so we went directly from the solar cell to the "projector" input on the transmitter. The transmitter also had a non-sync and a couple of mic inputs, too. We used a home stereo (tuned into the appropriate frequency) to run the speakers for the booth, concession and patio.

Sorry, I don't remember the make and model of the transmitter, but it was specifically designed for drive-in use.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-02-2001 10:53 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>You mean you can go "directly" from the solar cell to a pre-amped turntable input on one of my DJ mixers? Where does the "cinema processor" come into play. I was always under the assumption that I had to have a cinema processor of some type to decode the output of the solar cell?<<

A Cinema Processor is only necesary if you are planning to extract 4 channels from a matrixed stereo print, and/or add the required noise reduction. Since you mentioned that it was a mono cell already, then yes it shpould work fine when properly preamplified. To improve the sound you might consider a 1/3 octave equalizer between the preamp and power amp, and using pink noise and an RTA adjust the equalizer to the proper freq. response curve.

Aaron

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-03-2001 12:47 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the microphone input of the pre-amp is a transformer input, you will not need the loading resistor.

If the pre-amp is not transformer input, the loading resistor is required. The solar cell wants to look into a load of 600 Ohms or so.

The solar cells will be too wild in gain and frequency response without the proper loading, and will sound like shit.

Gordon, I used a Shure Microphone Mixer with a Mono solar cell (Radio Shack $3.00 special) glued to a broomstick handle jammed into a Weber Syncro-Film Sound head. I was very impressed with the frequency response when I loaded it with a 680 ohm resistor. It made all the difference in the world.


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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-03-2001 01:13 AM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found that the later mono (kelmar) cells work best with about a 220 to 440 ohm bridging resistor, I think the nominal impedance of these cells is about 135-150 ohms...depends on light color temp & brilliance...

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 04-03-2001 08:30 AM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks so much fellows, off to the electronics store I go!

You know, from the age of ten or so, I've torn apart all kinds of my dad's stuff (and pissed him off a couple times) like 8mm projectors, tape decks, radios etc. Inexplicably, did not take electronics in school when it WAS offered. I think I can get this little solar cell job done, but can anyone suggest some reading material to help with the principles of all this sound stuff?
Electronics for Dummies? Is there such a thing? Thank you again.

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William T. Parr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 823
From: Cedar Park, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-03-2001 09:19 AM      Profile for William T. Parr   Email William T. Parr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave,

Download one of the Dolby manuals in the Manuals section of Film Tech. Preferably the CP200 manual would be the best since it covers the Magnetic and optical domain. The CP65 would be a second best. Also if it is available download the Dolby MPU manual. All Dolby manuals do have a preface and documentation on how Sound is recorded and decoded. You can also visit John Allen's website at www.hps4000.com He does a majority of the Sound articles in Boxoffice magazine and has his articles archived on his site.


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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-03-2001 10:25 AM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've got "Kelmar" cells in all three of my soundheads... how can I tell if they are stereo cells or mono cells?

Also.... after reviewing the manuals for the RCA 9030 soundheads.... I cannot find any wiring diagrams that tell you what to hook to where... anyone care to chime in?

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-03-2001 10:42 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A mono cell is enclosed in a black case with a glass cover over the front. A stereo cell is mounted on a clear-white plastic holder with the tiny solar cell (about 3/16") glued to the front without any protection to it's surface (they are very delicate).

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