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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Odd Defect in Xenon Lamp (LTI Lamp) (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Odd Defect in Xenon Lamp (LTI Lamp)
Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-07-2001 09:10 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was wondering what would cause a lamp to create a "bubble" in it? This lamp has only 600 hours on it. It is in a XENEX II lamp house. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-07-2001 09:19 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, Sean.

If you are addressing a bubble in the quartz glass itself, something got on it. Maybe a blotch of oil or an oily finger touched it.

I would not recommend using that bulb. It will probably blow up. The damage has already been done, and take it out of service immediately if you haven't already done so.



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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-08-2001 12:01 AM      Profile for Joe Schmidt   Email Joe Schmidt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sean, be very careful!!

DON'T TOUCH THAT BULB unless you are wearing a helmet, flak jacket and heavy gloves protecting your arms and hands 100%.

It is simply not worth the risk otherwise.

You can be killed or maimed for life by that thing.

If you don't have ADEQUATE safety equipment, I would almost say it would be safer to just post a warning sign on the lamphouse [DO NOT OPEN!] and let the bulb run until it does blow up, if it is going to. Once it has blown up, if it does, it cannot blow up again and then you can safely clean up the mess and install another bulb.

Unfortunately you can also have a show broke down in the middle, which is why I have always questioned the wisdom of running single projectors with platters -- there's no backup and in case of a breakdown you just can't get back up and running quickly as we could in the old days with 2-proj. & sometimes 3-proj. booths.

Could others here comment on this, perhaps?

J.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-08-2001 12:29 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I say to change that thing out right now. Even if you have to do it between shows.
Get your flack jacket and your face shield. Make sure you're wearing your gloves. Take all the precautions that we all talk about on this site.

I'd rather have one show be 2 minutes late than have to tell a theatre full of Moms and their kids that they can't watch the rest of 102 Dalmations because "The light bulb burned out..." Kids don't understand those things.
The Moms don't understand things much better than the kids do, either. Most lay people think it's just an ordinary light bulb. They just don't understand about the intracacies and dangers of xenon lamps.

Yeah, I know I may have been rash about saying to change the lamp out between shows. It CAN be done but I'd rather not do it unless it was an emergency. However, I'd say that this IS a borderline emergency. At least it WILL be an emergency if that puppy blows on you!

If you think you can change the lamp on in-betweeners just shut the lamp off when the credits roll. Maybe let most of the people leave the theatre first. This will give the lamp a few extra minutes to cool off. Yeah, I know that's cheezy presentation but this is an emergency, right? Get all your tools laid out and ready to go so you don't have to fish around for them at the last second. When called upon, I have been able to change out a xenon lamp between shows in about 15 minutes. I don't like to do it but it's nice to know that I can when I have to .

The other alternative is to wait till after last show and do it then. Maybe if you're lucky there won't be anybody in the auditorium for the last run. (I can hope, can't I?) Then you can run the show with the lamp off and do it right when the film tails out. Again it won't take you more than an extra hour to do it. If your boss says he doesn't want to spend the payroll money, ask him which he would like to pay for... $10 for you to stay late and fix the problem? OR about $1,000 dollars to repair a F***ed up lamphouse? It's his choice. If you want to compromise with him tell you can come in an hour early next morning and do it. If you let him think it was his idea, all the better.

I may sound a little rash in this post but I really believe in what I'm saying. I have seen too many things get messed up simply because somebody didn't take action when the should have and it cost them a LOT more than it could have if they took care of the problem right in the first place.

Use your judgement and don't take unnecessary chances but also do the good work that I KNOW you know how to do!


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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 02:20 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks guys,
Yeah I would like to change it out but the owner does not want me to. The tech is coming for his quarterly visit on tuesday so we are going to have him do it then. If it was up to me it would be out already.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 02:30 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I came back here to warn you of the dangers of that bulb, but thank God, Joe Schmidt and Randy Stankey beat me too it.

That thing is a hand gernade with the pin already pulled.

If it lasts that long without exploding, please get out of the room when your tech changes it, if you can.

If you are required to be there when it is changed, make sure you are wearing protective gear and face shield, also.

Paul


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-08-2001 04:40 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sean;

Are you capable of doing it safely?

I don't mean to sound like I'm putting your boss down but I think he's being a "weenie". If this thing is as bad as you say, it really NEEDS to come out of there RIGHT AWAY! I think he just doesn't understand the gravity of what's about to happen.

If that fucker blows up on you it will sound like a shotgun going off! It'll probably take out the reflector dish. If your lamphouse doesn't have a heat shield in the snoot, the thing will shoot glass particles out of the lamphouse and into the projector. They will imbed themselves into the projector gate and will scratch the fuck out of any film you run until you repair the projector... not just the lamphouse... the projector... and the film too!

A brand new trap/gate costs something like $500+ depending on the model. The reflector is going to cost you a few hundred Semolians too. If you trash the print you could be on the hook for over $1,000 (If you're lucky.) This doesn't include down time which could cost you several hundred dollars per show. It'll cost even more if it happens over a weekend. Add to that the lost revene at the concession stand and your REALLY down and dirty! (Oh! And don't forget: You'll be cleaning razor sharp pieces of glass out of that projector for years to come! )

What we end up with is a bill for what? 2,000++ dollars? Why? Because the guy is trying to save a bit of chump change on payroll? You gotta' ask yourself... Is it worth the gamble?

I say you talk to the boss and explain that this is a "Pay me now or pay me later" kind of deal you've got going. If you are capable of doing it you ought to do it. If you are "marginally" capable of doing it, then I say you talk the boss into doing it together. If he's not the mechanical type, then get somebody to help who is mechanically inclined. Just take it slow and easy. Take your time and do things step-by-step. Maybe you ought to wait until the end of the day and do it when the lamp is cold. It's a LOT safer then... something like a factor of 2 or 3. (Going by the internal pressure of a hot lamp vs. a cold one.)

After you do change it you should have your tech. come out and look things over...


  1. To make sure you did it right
  2. To make sure there are no problems that might cause this to happen again.

If you still can't get the guy to let you change it, I wish you good luck. You're going to need it!

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-08-2001 04:46 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry about double posting but this just came to mind:

You say your tech is due on site by when? Tuesday? If that thing shits the bed on you, will he still come on Tuesday?

Man! If one of my theatres called me with a problem like this I'd be OUT THE DOOR!!!

PS: Sorry about the swearing. I usually censor myself but I am trying to make a point.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 04:50 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And, Sean, if you don't have the proper OSHA approved safety equipment such as the jacket, face shield, etc., don't even think about changing it.

Having this equipment on hand, I believe, is a required by OSHA. You might want to look into that if that makes you feel more comfortable.

For what is worth, I FORBID any of my projectionists to change a xenon bulb without wearing the protective clothing that we have provided in our theaters.

Furthurmore, I forbid them to change a xenon bulb if they didn't feel comfortable about
doing it.

I posted this to further back up Randy, when he asked you if you are capable of doing it safely.

If you feel you can't, then I would recommend that you simply just don't do it. Again, those bulbs are very dangerous.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-08-2001 06:30 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Sean,

Before that lamp is taken out, can you get us a picture of it for discussion and teaching purposes for the rest of the members (and lurkers) here?

I am amazed that the tech isn't coming out to your theater and that your manager has instructed to not change the lamp. Whatever happens I hope that thing does not blow up before it gets removed, as it will cause significant damage to the reflector and as Randy put it so nicely, at LEAST a $1000 bill in projector/lamphouse parts and potentially replacement print costs as well.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 04:57 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its not the Manager that doesnt want it taken out (Im one of the managers) its the owner. He feels that it is best to let the tech do it and there is nothing that I can say to change his mind, also i do not think we even have a spare lamp.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 05:02 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The owner will not let us call the tech, we told him about the situation and he said to have the tech look at it on tuesday. The reason we opened the lamphouse in the first place is because we needed to find out the wattage of the lamp. He didnt even want us to do that. I reminded him that I was a head projectionist at my previous job and that I had experience with Xenon Lamps but he still doesnt even want us to open the lamp house.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-08-2001 05:28 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay! Let the dodgamm thing blow up! Maybe you'll be lucky and it won't.

If it does, tell this guy that about 1,000 people from all around the world warned him!

The very LEAST he should do is call the tech and have him order you a new lamp. If he calls bright and early Monday morning he can have it delivered Next-Day Air. When your guy gets there he can just swap it out and be done with it.

If I were in your position I would just change the thing and not say anything. When the tech gets there, if he knows his stuff, he'll back you up on it. Just about everybody reading this thread would back you up if they could. I know I would if I were there!


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 07:46 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen owners like that. Don't argue with him, Sean. You know you are right, so you have done your job.

Randy, I don't think he should change it. Sean could be written up for dis-obeying that ***** owner's orders, and his job could be threatened.

Let the F*****g thing blow! The owner deserves it.


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-08-2001 08:00 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm with Paul on this one. It sounds like Sean has given the owner all the necessary information about the problem and what needs to be done. If he doesn't follow the advice, he deserves what he gets. It's really sad, though, when theatre owners hire good employees and then don't listen to their advice.

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