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Topic: MUT question...

Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 04-24-2001 08:17 AM

This may be a dumb question, but I don't know, so I need to ask. The other night at the show, I peered into the booth where two men were loading film off the MUT and onto the centre of a 3-deck platter. However, the payout of the film from the MUT was about a foot lower than the platter, and the film simply slid (scraped?) across the edge on its way there. Now, I know nothing much about it, other than what a MUT and platter look like and generally what they do, but it struck me that this might be the sort of thing that could cause diagonal scratches on the film??? Or is this normal procedure?

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-24-2001 09:00 AM

Take a big stick and go "enlighten" those guys on the head a few times, would you?

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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Randy Loy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 156

Registered: Aug 1999

posted 04-24-2001 09:11 AM

I agree with Greg. These guys were obviously of the "don't know and don't care because the film doesn't belong to me anyhow" school of thought. Sounds to me like they're not Film-Techers but sure oughta be!

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Mark DeLettera
Film Handler

Posts: 54
From: Venice, Florida
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 04-24-2001 09:32 AM

The motion picture print films of today are much more durable than in the past, but dragging it across the surface of a platter during make-up does not come under the headings of "Proper Film Handling" or especially "Film Done Right"!
Why did they bother using the MUT? A pencil through the spindle hole may have worked just as good in that case!

------------------
Mark DeLettera
Eastman Kodak Co.
Worldwide Technical Svs.
Rochester, NY
mark.delettera@kodak.com
716-588-4189

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William T. Parr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 823
From: Cedar Park, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-24-2001 09:48 AM

Dave, You should find out what Movie is in that Auditorium then go watch to see how bad the messed it up. If it is messed up ask to see the manager. Then tell him what you saw them doing with the film, how bad it messed up te quality of your presentation and also send out a letter to the chains home office and tech department. If the Theatre's Home office has any sense to them whats so ever, they will correct that problem immediately. If they seem to be blowing you off also send a copy to the film distrubtor as well so They will know why they recieved a print back with scratches all in it. as mentioned, that way of doing film does not fall into the "Film Done Right " catagory at all. Hope John does not see this, it will probably give him a coronary. No bad luck intended John.

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 04-24-2001 11:26 AM

Well, I'm hoping it was only trailers, but my fear is that (and this is going to hurt you Randy) it was the second feature at a drive-in. There was already a film loaded on the bottom I think, though I really only peered in long enough to think, sheesh, I THINK that's wrong! I'm assuming it was "Someone Like You", the 2nd that night, I didn't notice a whole lot wrong during the show, but it was their first showing of it. Crazy thing is, this place is a VERY well kept place, gets painted every year, adding a 3rd screen (2nd went up only a couple years ago), very clean. What is the proper way? Some sort of roller guides on the way over the edge? Thank you, very interesting...

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Joe Smith
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Dale City, Va. USA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 04-24-2001 11:54 AM

quote:
What is the proper way? Some sort of roller guides on the way over the edge?

Dave, I'm far from an expert and I'm sure you'll get many proper responses about how it's supposed to be done, but:

The MUT I'm familiar with has a post/shaft on one corner of the table with several rollers on it. One of the rollers should be aligned with the surface of the platter you're loading so that the film just barely touches (or doesn't touch at all) the surface of the platter at the outer edge. The film has a twist in it as it comes off the MUT roller toward the center of the platter so that it doesn't touch the edge of the platter. As it straightens out toward the center of the platter it will rest on the platter surface. Wish I had a picture of this for you..... It's easier to understand with a picture.

Joe

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-24-2001 11:57 AM

I just returned from the emergency room of the hospital after my heart briefly stopped. They revived me with a xenon lamp ignitor. I'm glad Mark filled in for me.

"Film Done Right" is a matter of GOOD COMMON SENSE! As Mark said, Kodak VISION Color Print film is very durable and hard to scratch, but there are limits!

A well-designed MUT has adjustable guide rollers that can be positioned to guide the film onto the platter without rubbing the image area surface of the film. At the very least, there is usually a separate guide roller for each level of the platter. Ideally, the film should be guided onto the platter so the film EDGE just touches the platter at the point of windup.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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William T. Parr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 823
From: Cedar Park, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-24-2001 12:01 PM

Dave, The proper way would be to use a roller guidance system (should of been one on the MUT already) to transfer the film from the reel to the platter. Even if it is the Middle Platter they should hav been using a guidance system to transport to the platter. Film going on tothe platter shout have roughly a 1/16 of inch between it and the platter until the film is about 1/3 of the way out from the Platter ring. If you would like a good reference for how this should bee done look in the Manuals section of Film-Tech at the Strong Alpha Platter operation. It has a good illustration of a film path to and from thier MUT during Make Up and Break down operations. I use to tear into Projectionist at My theatre if they were caught not using the equipment as described in the Operating manuals.

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Randy Loy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 156

Registered: Aug 1999

posted 04-24-2001 12:25 PM

John, I'm glad they got your heart started at the ER. We couldn't do without you here in the Film-Tech forums!

Now I have to go the the hospital myself since Dave ripped my heart out by revealing that this travesty in film handling was at a DRIVE-IN! Just kidding Dave I often see very professional film handling in drive-ins but you can sometimes find some not so great handling in outdoor theatres, just as you can in any kind of cinema. In the end it all depends upon how much pride the projectionist has in his or her work and how willing they are to try to learn to be the best at what they do. Of course I'm preaching to the choir on this issue!

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-24-2001 12:26 PM

Dave,
What type of platter was it? My AW-1 did the same thing when I got it.

With the AW-1 you can only build and off-load from the center platter. The MUT has a horizontal "turn-table" in which the film is pulled from the MUT over to the platter.

My MUT turntable was about 2 inches lower than the center platter, and the film would just scrape along the edge as it wound onto the center ring. I knew that couldn't be right. Once I got the manual, I figured out how to "adjust" the leveling feet on the bottom of the MUT and raised it to it's proper height. It no longer scapes the sides, now it just blows the circuit in the basement.

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 04-24-2001 02:54 PM

William, 1/16 of an inch? That's just too damned risky, for if there is just a slight bounce from the reel, you will get scratches!

I will take pictures tonight of the many wrong ways to align that and the right way and post them here. What's that saying, "a picture is worth a thousand words"?

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-24-2001 06:16 PM

Another problem that will cause diagonal scratches on the emulsion side of the film is a badly sprung and out-of-adjustment intermittent sprocket film stripper on some machines, especially if you use a very big loop. This has been a very common problem with the Brenkerts.

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 04-24-2001 07:51 PM

Not sure what type it was Barry, I was walking past, I THINK it was a light blue one, I was more interested in the MUT, as I had not seen one operating before, when I noticed the film scraping over the platter.

Which side is the emulsion side? I'm assuming that this is the more delicate side.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-24-2001 08:11 PM

Although Kodak VISION Color Print film is very is durable, either side can be scratched by this kind of mishandling. Back-side scratches usually show up as black on the screen, as do superficial emulsion side scratches. Deeper emulsion scratches are colored -- as the scratch gets more severe, they go from green to yellow to clear.

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