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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Pearl Harbor THX/dts problem (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Pearl Harbor THX/dts problem
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-24-2001 05:31 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
All THX auditoriums playing Pearl Harbor beware...the THX logos are not on the discs! The silk screening says that the audio is on there, but they are not.

If dts or Buena Vista is listening, will there be a recall of some sort to distribute corrected discs? Many theaters are still running with the older 2 drive players and many of the newer units have one of the drives dead, so this is very important to THX certified theaters.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-07-2001 04:26 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
It has happened again...the feature discs for Swordfish do not have the THX logo audio! What is the deal???

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-07-2001 12:02 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The reason they are not on the discs (even though the label says they are) is because PEARL HARBOR is a very long movie and all the reels barely squeezed in.

Sorry about the confusion and thanks for pointing it out!

Karen at DTS

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-07-2001 12:18 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Karen --- is there a definite maximum run time that will fit without needing to swap disks (i.e. need an intermission), or does that vary with the amount of compression used?

(Egads! I've just crossed the 2000 posting threshold and become a "Film God". I must have died and gone to heaven. Being a good Catholic, I'll settle for a small "g" in god. )

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-11-2001 03:56 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

We never vary the compression rate. It is always 4:1. The decision was made upon mastering and I know it is disapointing for theaters, but we'll just have to live with it for these two features.

Karen at DTS

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-11-2001 04:08 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Forgot to answer the other part of your question:

The maximum really has more to do with the size of the files (reels). But, in general, the maximum amount of time for a two-disc feature is 3 hours 20 minutes. As mentioned, it depends on the length of the reels. If some reels are over 20 minutes, then we have to move reels around on the discs to make them fit. (One disc can hold 90 minutes). Each reel has it's own file and is never "cut-up". It has to remain whole. So, sometimes, a reel simply doesn't fit and we have to move (for example) a long reel one to the "B" disc. It's ever trickier if more reels are over 20 minutes or we have to include alternate reels for foreign distribuation.

Usually, one half the feature is on one disc and the other half on the second. In the case of PEARL HARBOR and SWORDFISH, it was decided to shave off trailers to make all the reels fit on the "standard" number of master discs. Otherwise, PEARL HARBOR would have gone to 3 discs. I do not know why SWORDFISH was not increased to two discs.

Karen at DTS

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-11-2001 05:31 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Lightbulb coming on]

I can always tell when my DTS player changes disks because the sound drops to analog for about 1/2 second when it happens. Every now and then, I notice this more than once in a movie and always wondered about the reason for it....but Karen's post above explains why this can happen. If Reels 1,2,4 and 6 are on one disk, and 3,5 and 7 on another (due to reel length) the machine would have to switch back and forth twice.

Thanks for the info Karen!

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 06-11-2001 06:09 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting, I have never had my DTS units kick to analog do to switching back and forth between disks or at reel changes. I do believe that Cinemark had their Image trailer on the pearl harbor disk. I will verify and edit this post later.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-11-2001 09:00 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen dts units drop to silence for just a brief instant at a reel change, but never actually drop to analog during a reel change. I've been told this is because the timecode offset was "over 70" which supposedly causes a problem...but I've seen it at offsets of 24.

Karen, has there ever been a resolution to that quick instant of silence between reels? Perhaps a new timecode chip? I've seen it on ver 1.29 and 1.46 and it only affects some movies.


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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-12-2001 01:19 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>In the case of PEARL HARBOR and SWORDFISH, it was decided to shave off trailers to make all the reels fit on the "standard" number of master discs. Otherwise, PEARL HARBOR would have gone to 3 discs.<<

If my memory serves me right, 'Titanic' which at 3:15 runs ten minutes LONGER than 'Pearl Harbor' managed to fit onto TWO disks, INCLUDING all the requisite trailers and THX snipes... (The only three-disk title that I know of is GWTW)...

Aaron

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-12-2001 05:48 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron,

Yes, Titanic had the THX trailers. Probably reels were easier to "fit" in the disks rather than pealr harbor.

Mike,
I never saw my DTS player drop out of digital at disk change. Sometimes I can note a brief moment of silence (just a moment, I'm the one in the auditorium that can note it!). But I think that in these cases the problem is on the soundtrack rather than in the player because if I remember correctly I had a movie with a continuous sound between disk change and the sound had no interruption.
I agree with Brad, I know that when you have SR drop at reel change the readers offset could be higher than 70.

Bye
Antonio

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-12-2001 12:49 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio, that "over 70" thing that I quoted is NOT me talking. That came from someone at dts about 5 years ago and thus far I have noticed absolutely no connection. I have had readers running as high as 97 with no problems whatsoever. I have had readers set at 24 that do the quick instant silence drop. The timecode chip doesn't seem to matter, it seems to be something else, for the problem will follow the movie discs and only certain players. Mind you, this is running through a reel change with constant audio, the quick blip of silence does not happen in SRD or SDDS on the same reel change, there is no drop to analog and even chopping off 6 frames on each leader for the splice (a desperate measure we were instructed to try) made no difference.



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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
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 - posted 06-12-2001 01:48 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

I know. I read about the "70 offset" on DTS troubleshooting manual.
I have 55 and I have noted, sometimes, that at disk change (usually changeover in my system) there is a very small blip of silence. But I don't know if I heard it with every dts encoded film I've projected. I will check.

Bye
A

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-12-2001 05:28 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Audio capacity per CD-ROM disc for DTS is approximately 100 minutes. "Titanic" did have the THX trailers on its discs; however, I don't think they included as many theater chain snipes. At that time, I think only Mann and Cinemark had DTS audio included on the standard movie discs. I know Carmike Cinemas' trailers weren't featured on DTS CD-ROMs until just over the last year or two (when Carmike finally got a decent looking policy snipe produced). I seem to remember hearing Carmike's trailer play in DTS when I watched "Pearl Harbor".

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-12-2001 09:19 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For what it's worth, the data on Pearl Harbor disk A total 639966 bytes; disk B is 668054 bytes. The contents list is here

It looks like there might not have been room for the THX soundtrack. (Aren't these on the trailer disks, anyway?) Disk A contains sound for R1, R3, R4, R5, R7; disk B contains sound for R2, R6, R8, and R9.


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