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Topic: Thread up or thread down with changeovers?

Pete Lawrence
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 192
From: Middleburg, PA
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 06-01-2001 10:17 PM

I know this topic has been thoroughly dealt with when using platters. With a platter all you need do is to thread in frame, any frame, the automation takes care of the rest. I can see how it can save some time when you aren't trying to thread for that necessary 8 second roll in a changeover setup. I was taught many years ago to thread with the appropriate leader number in the gate. My question is how does threading up apply when your using two projectors and 2000 ft reels as I am.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 06-02-2001 01:57 AM

Personally, I see no advantage "threading-up" with 2000 reels and c/o's. But, it really depends on the particular projector.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-02-2001 02:56 AM

it should not matter if you are using the platters or reel to reel. Everything should be threaded so that the picture hits the aperture and the sound points at the required automation time out. Junk leader should not be projected on the screen and you should not be into the trailer when the picture hits the screen.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-02-2001 05:08 AM

My take on it is that when running changeover it really doesn't matter much which direction you thread, so long as you are not letting the film hit the floor. The biggest problem with changeover houses are the ones that do not add extra head and tail leader to the existing lab heads and tails. The handling on the countdown ends up working it's way into the first of the reel and the super short tail leaders that the labs are sending out these days will cause much scuffing at the ends of the reels. My rule is an extra 25 feet minimum at the head and tail of each reel in addition to the lab's leaders. Thread on the leader and MOTOR the projector down to the desired start frame. That not only keeps the handling off of the leaders, but also makes sure the takeup reel is tensioned properly before you start the projector.

I'm sure Steve could give many more of the finer tips, but this is the most important basic rule as far as I am concerned when running reel to reel.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-02-2001 06:24 AM

I agree with Brad that what counts is NOT letting the leader or film touch the floor or any dirty surface. Extra leader does help keep any dirt and handling away from the pictures. Unfortunately, one place distributors try to economize is on the length of the protective leaders --- many prints do not have the length of protective leader (in addition to the labeled and numbered countdown leader) specified by standard SMPTE 301:

_____________________________________________

5.1 Protective section

The protective section of the leader shall consist of a
minimum of 8 linear feet (2.44 m) of transparent or raw
stock. When the protective leader has been reduced
to a length of 6 linear feet (1.83 m), it shall be restored
to its original length. Logos, trademarks, part titles, or
other extraneous materials, if absolutely necessary,
should be placed in this section.

_____________________________________________

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-04-2001 02:19 AM

Certainly I agree with everything said, and adding extra leader at the heads of new prints is something I used to do at times, but one day I was told to "stop doing that, it's a waste of film & time, the next operator who gets the film is just going to cut it off," and they did.

For those of us who handle archival prints and do revival screenings the point is a good one, but otherwise by the time you reach my age you're supposed to have learned you can't change the world.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-04-2001 03:03 AM

Joe, you seem to like making it a point in every post of yours to mention your age and "wetirement" status. Age really doesn't matter and while you may not be able to change the world, you CAN change the level of presentation at YOUR theater. Just because the next guy is going to "cut the added leaders off anyway" is in my opinion a piss poor attitude towards taking care of a film print.

At least when prints leave my hands they are absolutely perfect. Every single pass the film is ran through a film cleaner, the equipment is carefully maintained and the operators put extra attention to good threading practices (like keeping the leader off of the floor). When it is time for break-down, I even wrap each reel in plastic liners to make sure the dirt from the shipping cans doesn't get on the edges of the film. (Yes, I also clean the mega dirty reels the films originally come on too.) If the next guy trashes the print, there's nothing I can do about that. BUT, I DID care for that print while it was in my possession.

Sorry for the mini rant, but that sort of "I don't care anymore" talk just doesn't have a place here on Film-Tech. I feel confident saying that 99% of everyone here strives for the best presentation they can possibly achieve and that is the kind of talk I hear from people I am about to fire at the workplace for doing a shitty job. The theaters near you may be crap, but that does not mean that there are not a LOT of theaters out there that put on a damned good show. It's called taking pride in the work you do.

Ahhhhh, those three magical words..."Film done RIGHT!"

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-04-2001 06:49 AM

In addition to taking pride in our own work to have "Film Done RIGHT", hopefully we can all make the effort to help other theatres (even our "competition") improve presentation quality. Brad's attitude of "At least when prints leave my hands they are absolutely perfect." is the right one. Likewise, encourage good presentation in other theatres by pointing out problems and praising "Film Done Right". Suffering though bad presentation in silence, and then complaining to everyone except those who can do something about it, helps no one. Those with a "Passion for Projection" don't limit their quest for quality to only the theatre they work at.

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