Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Out-of-phase end-credit music in 'Swordfish'

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Topic: Out-of-phase end-credit music in 'Swordfish'

Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-03-2001 12:08 PM

I seem to recall someone mentioning this earlier in another thread, but I can't seem to find that comment now...

...anyway, during the music at the end of 'Swordfish' the sound seems out of phase. Even some of the staff have commented to me that if they stand exactly central to the left and right channels, the music is 'in their head' whereas if they move slightly off-centre the effect is gone. Has anyone else noticed this, or has something at my end been set up incorrectly? I doubt that anyone has rewired the system since our last movie...so what could this be? We're listening in DTS, by the way.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 07-03-2001 11:38 PM

If the signal is mono (but being played out of the left and right speakers) isn't that what's supposed to happen? (That sound - like it's in your head.)

I thought a slight phase shift would be heard as a sort of reverb, or echo.

Can you listed to the l/r channels with a pair of headphones in the booth?

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 07-04-2001 12:49 AM

What is probably happening is the fact that the music is playing thru the left and right channels but is not utilizing the center channel so when you go off center everything shifts with you. If there is singing the volcals will move slightly off center because of the phantom effect. That is why movies sound better with a center channel. If it was out of phase there would be a shift in the sound when standing in the center. The sound would have a hollow apperance in the center.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-04-2001 01:28 AM

Let's see if this works....

CLICK HERE for phase demonstration.

It'll only work if you have stereo speakers on your computer.

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John Gordon
Film Handler

Posts: 62
From: Earth
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 07-06-2001 06:54 PM

Randy,
It works.

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-06-2001 07:23 PM

Well, it works on my laptop as well. It is good to know that it's stereo. In-phase sounds natural and like it is coming from my touchpad. Out-of-phase sounds like it's coming from 6-inches above my computer on the left and right. It sounds like it has space and volume. That is how they must do the fake stereo on those cheap receivers.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 07-06-2001 07:57 PM

And if you notice you have a hollow presence in the center of your monitor instead of the vocal being centered.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-06-2001 10:29 PM

Glad it works! Now, when somebody has a problem that has something to do with a sound or something like that, some person can post a sound clip or something. That way it'll be easier to tell a person about a specific problem, for example.

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-02-2001 11:47 AM

OK - here's part two of this wierd phenomenon, with a bit more insight and information...

Playing 'Swordfish' in other auditoriums proves that there's nothing wrong with the sound mix - as one would expect. However, playing 'Bridget Jones's Diary' in the same auditorium that 'Swordfish' originally played in also produces out-of-phase characteristics. A-ha!

Now, we recently had our DTS-6D unit's drives upgraded because the old Toshiba ones finally had it. The unit was sent away for this procedure. 'Swordfish' was the first feature to play in DTS after the drive upgrade, and this is when the out-of-phase problem was first noticed. I cannot imagine that there is a phase adjustment in the DTS unit itself, or is there?

It is most noticable during sequences with music, which would indicate a left/right polarity problem...although in SR the problem seems to disappear, although perhaps it is still there but somehow less obvious.

Any feedback would be much appreciated! I take it that a full B-chain would pick up any phasing errors in speaker/amp connections, etc, right? Thanks again...

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Steven Pickles
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Gainesville, FL, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-02-2001 12:41 PM

Out of phase and in-phase sound problems can sometimes be caused by acoustics. In some part of the theatre do you fully hear the music in phase while other times out of phase—to check this walk parallel to the screen and mark any hotspots where you notice the score go in and out of phase. If the results are consistent to where every x feet you can differentiate between the two then it is speaker placement or something along the way causing one wave to be slightly behind the other complimenting wave. Outdoor amphitheatres suffer from this problem and the only way to get around it is to have massive racks of speakers pointing in just about every direction—plus when one is outside it is difficult to notice because of echoing and wave dampening. I’m pretty sure that you will be able to come up with some center, right, and left channel pink noise or tones so that you can loop and check in/out of phase due to speaker placement. In my opinion it would be unlikely that the DTS drives are defective because all they do is read data (correct?). In any case, check back if you find anything.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-02-2001 09:16 PM

Possibly a really stupid question but here goes... Is it possible that when the DTS was removed from the system to repair it that it was somehow hooked up incorrectly when it was put back in? Most of my systems are hooked up with DB-?? connectors so that's pretty much impossible but I just thought I'd ask.

Another thing... does this also happen when the movie is played in analog/stereo? That'll help you sort out whether the problem is in the DTS or not.

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Kyle Connolly
Film Handler

Posts: 13
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-03-2001 04:05 AM

(a bit off-topic)

The sound mixer on my computer (RipTide) has an option it calls "Stereo Enhance", but it's really transforming in-phase sond to in-your-head out-of-phase sound!

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