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Author Topic: Union/I.A.T.S.E. Projectionists
Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-03-2001 06:57 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would just like to get everyones opinion about I.A.T.S.E. Projectionists.

AZ is a Right to Work state where labor unions (outside of those associated with government agencies/contractors, Teamsters and such) are almost powerless.

AZ had Union Projectionists up until the early-mid 1980s, when they were kicked out. Theaters claimed that there was no need for Union Projectionists due to the advent of automation/platters, safety film and Xenon bulbs.

There was a lot of nasty stuff that went on, and there was much media coverage. Theaters accused Projectionists of being lazy and featherbedding. I have also heard from some of the old Union members that there were political/racial factions within the Union, as well as some truth in the theaters accustations. There were also reports of Projectionists causing physical damage to "booths" as retaliation for being laid-off. Not to mention labor strikes and failed negotiations that were covered by the news-media.

Since AZ is a Right to Work State, it is a fact that a dishwasher or ditchdigger can earn just as much as a skilled technician/tradescraftsman!

Personally, I definately believe that having Union Projectionists would be one way of insuring quality presentations and upkeep of equipment. It would also be a means of ensuring fair and proper wages. But I also believe that if Unions have a comeback, it would be in the best interest of the Unions to police themselves to insure that the past does not repeat itself. I know that many of those Union Projectionists were skilled technicians. I had the opportunity to watch some of them in action, and remember them bustin ass! They deserved respect for their level of knowlege and expertise!

What's your opinion?

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-03-2001 07:49 PM      Profile for John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Email John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This topic could be argued for ages! I've been on both sides of the fence- union and non-union. I've seen pros who were union, and idiots who were union.

Likewise, the same with non-union.

In the final analysis, it's the person in the booth who either cares about what the do, or don't. For those who don't- show them the door!

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Michael Elam
Film Handler

Posts: 84
From: Clarksville, IN, USA
Registered: Mar 2001


 - posted 07-03-2001 07:58 PM      Profile for Michael Elam   Email Michael Elam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can remember from way back to the 60's when I was young and considered it a honor to be able to walk into a Union booth, permission of course had to be granted and most of the time I put my hands in my pockets as sort of a gesture to them I would not touch anything. Everything about that booth would be spotless, but over the years they decided theatres could not do without them and got lazy,with outrageous demands, I know this for a fact cause I am a Engineer for one of Majors and have dealt with them many times. Two men per shift for a 10 screen?,at $45.@hour? Theatre owners decided that due to platters and automation they could hire a kid off the street, and that is what they are doing, but in this day and time I think the Union Operator is badly needed, and it is in my opinion that if they would work for a reasonable wage, and not make such outrageous demands they might could make a comeback, I know I have several booths that I wish I had someone of their caliper behind the machines. In the few booths that we do have Union Operators their quality of work is not much better than the 17 year old. 20 years ago
I was told to fine another line of work cause theatres would not be around and experienced people like myself would not be needed, but things have changed so much that experience people are badly needed,
I am forced to look the other way or ignore many wrongs, cause the people that need to be doing their part to make it like it should aren't, that is the Owners/Managers. I was a memeber of IATSE for several years as a Engineer, and the IATSE officer that negotiated
the contract with the company I worked for, was totatly blowed away that we did more than sound, We actually installed,repaired,maintained
the mechanics of the booth?, he swore he did only Sound work.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-03-2001 08:42 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have supported the union for quite a number of years. But when it comes down to 2 or 3 projectionists on duty per booth in a small theater, I think that is just going too far.

Sorry, IATSE - That's just my feeling.

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 07-03-2001 09:35 PM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While I agree that good projectionists may have been found in the unions, the 600 lb. Gorilla presence of that union is what killed it. Some horror stories have been mentioned in previous posts. I have also heard of things like : manager access to booth prohibited by contract (only projs. had keys), outrageous salaries and demands (ie. full bathrooms and kitchenettes required in booths) and a general degredation of commitment to quality work as the projectionists became more and more untouchable. The unions, at least for projection, should never be brought back. It was a horrible example of abuse of power, these kind of things are only supposed to be done by management, heh.

-Mike

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Pete Lawrence
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 192
From: Middleburg, PA
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 07-03-2001 10:44 PM      Profile for Pete Lawrence   Email Pete Lawrence   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was one of those 18-year-old kids who actually worked in union booths here back in the early 70's. How you ask? I got to know one of the senior operators (number three on the local seniority list then) and he was able to get me a permit from the local. A permit meant I could do relief work, pay all the union fees and assessments, and had no seniority. But at least I was able to learn and work part time. Everything here was changeovers and carbon arc when I started. Over the next couple years they started converting over to platters and xenon. A great time to learn, you were exposed to every combination of equipment. Sadly, the union local just became impossible. I had a full time day job and it wasn't worth the aggravation. Now film is strictly a hobby. I worked relief in eight theaters regularly over several years and got along great with most managers and the district managers. The guys I met really cared about the presentation, it wasn't just a job, it was their profession. A term that means nothing to a great number of film jockeys today. Yes, there were abuses on both management and union sides. Unfortunately, today if the manager doesn't give a sh.. about the presentation why should the kid who sells popcorn, sweeps the floor, and runs the projectors?

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-03-2001 11:12 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, but terrible stories could also told about uncaring management.

I think this is also an example of where; what would work in one location may not work in another, ie: in a large city a union booth would be perfered, while in a rural area it may not work out because theaters are very small and run on a shoestring budget.

Personally, I feel there is a place for a union projectionist at most theaters, but that person *can not* just be a threader-upper, regardless of how good they are. He/she must also be able to fix most "everyday" problems without having to call in outside service. For example, these are the things I think a projectionist today should be able to handle themselves:

Replacing a xenen bulb and aligning it so there are no visible hot spots;

Advising management that a film being played is in an unusual ratio (like 1.33) and, if management OK's it, calculating the correct lens to project it correctly on the existing screen (and file a aperture plate);

Change any part (on the outside of the projector gear case) like the motor, belts, shutter, sprockets, zipper and practically any platter or lamphouse part.

Run Dolby tone and set levels correctly (esp. after exciter lamp changes) Run other audio test loops (buzz track, surround test, etc.)

Know what to look for while running the 35PA image test film (cropping, jitter/weave, uniformity of screen focus, ghosting, etc.)

Know simple electronics/electricty stuff like ohms law, using a multimeter, an oscilloscope, real-time analyzer, light meter, etc. They don't have to be an expert with this equipment, but should be able to operate them enough to understand what's going on, ie: know just by looking at an RTA that the EQ way off.

I feel the union should strive to get all of it's members to be able to do all the above. This is what will make them an asset to management, reduce problems, and get good shows.

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JC Cowles
Film Handler

Posts: 77
From: St. Paul, MN
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 07-03-2001 11:18 PM      Profile for JC Cowles   Email JC Cowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I for one believe in the Union. In the projection booth I started out as non-union for Regal. I was a manager/projectionist. I'll tell you one thing, there wasn't a professional projectionist in the building...myself included. The only projector I touched before working for Regal was a 16mm one my father rented at the library back in the early 80's. I was taught how to thread and it was pretty much anyone's guess when something went wrong.

Surfing the internet one day I learned of the IATSE union and found my local. I sent the president of the local an email and told him I was interested in what the Union had to offer to me. He gave me a relief operator's position at a Megaplex nearby. The senior operator had been a projectionist for over 20 years. Needless to say I learned a lot from him. After working with him for about 8 months I realized what a poor operation the other theater had. The most memorable thing my senior operator told me was he did it because he loved putting on the show. I greatly admired that about him. I learned more about being a projectionist my first day working with him than I ever did in all my previous days at the Regal theater.

The senior projectionist showed me the inner workings of projectors, some maintenance, explained to me about sound systems, and much more. After all, he himself completed much of the installation of all the equipment when the theater opened. At Regal, I would have been fired if I was found opening up one of the projectors even out of curiosity. We had a contracted company do any maintenance necessary. Of course, I only saw them twice in all the time I worked there. Automations were faulty, platters were falling apart, many pieces did not work, sound systems were consistently failing or out of alignment...all at a complex just UNDER a year old. Both times a technician came, EVERY projector had something wrong with it. Every single one. Not only were employees uneducated on how to fix them, even if they were educated enough, they were not allowed. Believe me, I begged the GM to let me fix some of the problems, but he refused. Some were so bad, I just fixed them anyway. I also saw over three dozen badly scratched prints in the year I worked there. And all prints were covered in dirt and dust by the time they left.

To give you an idea of the experience level of some of the employees, I present this example. We always ran soundtrack up (I showed them Kodak's recommendation to run soundtrack down--they didn't care). Anyway, someone accidentally threaded the film onto the takeup platter soundtrack down. The projectionist generally considered most knowledgeable didn't know what to do. They actually picked up the print and flipped it around so the soundtrack was on top again. Well, as (I hope) all of you know, the spiral pattern of the print cannot be reversed or you will get centerfeed wraps (or maybe you don't know because you aren't stupid enough to flip a print to get the soundtrack on the desired side). Nuff said?

The union job paid about 150% more than what the non-union job did. I believe the union helped keep that rate of pay. I also believe, projectionists with 20+ years of experience would be far and few if it weren't for decent paying projectionist positions. Because the company I work for decided to cut back union hours, I lost my job with one of the greatest teachers I will ever work with. And as of a few months ago, they cut his hours so much he couldn't afford to work there anymore. Now managers run the booth. I wonder what will happen when their soundtrack gets reversed.

I guess I really don't care if projectionists are union or non-union. I support the local IATSE union because I believe it has produced some of the finest projectionists in the country and helped to secure good paying jobs for them so they could afford to stay 20+ years. The projectionist I am working with now has been with the union for over 30 years. You just don't find that type of experience for starving wages. At least not for long.

But in a time where theater chains are highly dependent on the Manager/Projectionist hybrid, I see professional projectionists becoming extinct. I'd like to see the title of a Projectionist become a career again. Something you can stay with and actually pay the rent doing. I'd do that job. I'd do that job and learn it well. Why? Because I love putting on the show.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-04-2001 09:52 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well there are good and bad union operators just as there are good and bad managers and popcorn threaders
In Toronto it was almost unheard of for the first run theatres to have a lost performance or scratched presentations. But that wasn't free it required a profesional operator and that intailed paying a livable wage for the skills that required.
When the union lost most of its jobs the good operators typically left the industry to better paying jobs that all the skills they used in the background of there job provided.
True there were some bad operators and by law a union is legaly obligated to protect them as that is what they pay dues for.
Today it is a crapshoot of wheather a show will even run let alone be scratched or unwatchable
The bottom line you get what you payfor
Also in Toronto two person single booths went out in the 50's with the advent of safety film. The only exception was 70mm presentations and that was required by law that there be two operators.
In toronto automation and xenon had a painless introduction namely because the local embrassed its advent rather than fight it

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-04-2001 10:10 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm finding this thread interesting because most of the posts here relate to the quality of the screen presentation and seem to gloss over the idea of becoming a projectionist as a life work, with commensurate pay and benefits. With the upcoming changes, I question whether this would still be feasable, but even ten or twenty years ago it should have been a viable choice. No rational person can now say "I want to make this my career and work at it from now until I retire." The environment is just too hostile to even dream of doing this. Therein lies a core problem. No matter how much one loves film or great presentation or the technical aspects of the equipment, one has to look upon the work as temporary. A great many people that would otherwise be interested in the work examine the potential long term opportunities and run in the other direction. Family men look at the hours, the wages, and job security then take jobs delivering newspapers as more desirable work.

Reviewing the decision against Regal, I was struck by how stilted and formalized the arguments were, and how the core problem was only partly addressed. Using this as an example, I'll say that designating a booth job as a management function within a complex of more than six screens is a fiction, and not only a mere fiction, but an out-and-out lie.

I've run as the manager/operator of six-plexes and even in light business this is about as much as a manager can handle while still performing true management duties, and even that is only possible with regular outside tech support. "Management" is a title that businesses love because managers are forbidden by law from forming or joining unions. A manager/projectionist has to take whatever is dished out and say "Thank you sir, may I have more?" where an "usher b" can unionize if he or she has the balls.

The Regal decision did note that there had been no technological advances in recent years that would change the status of the job to a management function. What would have been even more interesting would have been if the NLRB had suggested that even "management" functions at the theatre level were no longer true management, thus opening the door to complete unionization of some theatres that are micro-managed from the corporate office.

The problems, as we all know, are lack of training, lack of incentives for growth and continued employment, and lack of decent wages and living conditions. Unions tried to address those problems but failed. The reasons were partly failure to bargain in good faith, as evidenced by some operators getting wages far above what the job called for, and failure to train and maintain an internal set of presentation and booth standards, which caused owners to become dissillusioned with the entire concept of unions.

While the Regal decison would seem to open the way to a resurrgance of the unions, I fear all it will do is shorten the timeline for digital cinema. In the short term, the best that circuits such as Regal can do is contract out the booth to an independent company. Theatres already commonly contract out janitorial services, and contracting out the booth would be little different. Contractors that charged excessive rates would find themselves in the same situation as janitorial contractors that overcharged. Part of the terms of contract could include presentation standards that would have to be met. This type of solution is not as cheap as hiring off the street, but the cost containment cap makes it a better option for the company than unions, even if the intial increase is double what is currently being paid.


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