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Topic: FilmGuard Use In The Occasional Use Screening Room

Mitchell Cope
Master Film Handler

Posts: 256
From: Overland Park, KS, United States
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-16-2001 12:41 PM

I know that you do not want to apply FilmGuard on too fast. What exactly does that mean for an occasional use screening room? About a month ago I screened an old dirty print. I used FilmGuard with the Film-Tech media pads on a Kelmar Film Cleaner. The pads were dirty enough after that one run through that I didn't want to use them again and I threw them away. FilmGuard did a terrific job! Now I want to screen that print again. Obviously I will be starting with new media pads and that's no problem. Since it's been 3 or 4 weeks, should I soak the new pads with FilmGuard as before, or should I just use the media pads without FilmGuard for the second go round. I'm trying to avoid applying too much FilmGuard to this print. What are the guidelines for sporadic use? Also, should I ever resoak pads after several weeks of inactivity?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-16-2001 01:37 PM

I normally tell people in that situation to make it a habit of soaking the pads after their performances. There is a certain amount of evaporation from time and setting up the cleaner a day or two before the show will keep those prints from being oversoaked.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-16-2001 02:47 PM

What happens if the film gets oversoaked? I soak the pads before each showing. Apart from streaking is there a detrimental side effect of too much FG? After about 3 passes (on an old used film)not much dirt is coming off, but I like the "wet gate" effect that the FG offers.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Gordon Bachlund
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 696
From: Monrovia, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 07-16-2001 03:01 PM

Greg, I have used FilmGuard regularly for about a year, applying it to new media rolls before mounting them on the cleaner so that I don't waste it. I apply until the color of the media rolls indicate saturation. Then I mount the media rolls, which are moist but not dripping, and run the film. As Brad notes, after a while the FilmGuard will evaporate, so I re-moisten the rolls if they are not too dirty and I plan to re-use them.

Now, as to ill effects, there have been none. Moreover, prints that exhibited considerable wear look incredibly better after a few passes through FilmGuard, and prints that came to me smelling of vinegar and testing in the 2 to 3 range using A-D Strips, lose their aroma and test in the 1 to 2 range after several passes.

You will be nothing but happy with FilmGuard!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-16-2001 03:24 PM

Too much? You could get "oozing" from the outside of the film roll or excessive streaking mainly. If you know you are going to run a film "tomorrow", just set up the cleaner "tonight" and don't worry about it. You will never have a problem like that in this particular situation.

(The recommendation above is not for regular theater's use.)

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 07-16-2001 07:42 PM

The only time that I have noticed a problem with FG is when I have applied too much on the reel, then upon running it on the Holmes, having to endure all the jumpng and bouncing around of the image in the gate due to the ultra-slick film.

Holmes has no tension adjustments on the gate, except 2 springs.

After one run with the jitters, the next run is always smooth.

I'm still amazed what comes off of the print a few days after the initial application. Wow.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-16-2001 08:18 PM

Hey wait
I was just wondering about Brad's quote about

".....a day or two before the show will keep those prints from being oversoaked...."

I couldn't imagine to much FG, so I just wanted to figure out what "oversoaked" meant. Cousre if it's running off the reel and onto the projector or floor or somethin, sure.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-17-2001 03:36 PM

Don't apply so much that it is visible on the screen as a mottled or streaked appearance. Film dyes are oil soluble, and EXCESS oily materials can actually leach out film dyes, especially on used prints where the emulsion-side protective layer has already been abraded. If dyes are being leached, you will start to see green or yellow spots (especially in dark scenes) or dye migration (colored halos/fringing), and wiping the oily film with a white tissue will show a magenta coloration. Using a media cleaner (e.g., Kelmar, Christie, or 3M web cleaner) seems to be the best method of applying the very small amount required for cleaning and lubrication of release prints. Follow the instructions -- a little goes a long way.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 07-17-2001 04:01 PM

When I mentioned the residue that I get off a print after a day or so of sitting after the first FG bath, I ment dirt. I did notice alot of grime and emulsion colors coming off of an ancient print on Agfa stock that I cleaned, but it was coming off when using any cleaner, and not just FG.

I'm amazed at how the dirt lets go of the prints!!

Bruce

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-17-2001 04:25 PM

To clarify John's statement (because it can be misinterpreted), yes the fresh application of FG WILL streak on screen and this is NORMAL. It is due to the manner of which the Kelmar cleaner lays down the FG solution in "lines", which do project as streaks. (Using media that has a raised "brick" pattern exaggerates this effect, but is fine for application.) This is minor and will disappear within a show or two at the most.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-18-2001 01:00 AM

In my experience it's actually kind of hard to get too much FG on a print if you use a media cleaner to apply it. I had a print that was so dirty it looked like it had been dragged through the mud. I ran it through the cleaner (which I attached to the make up table) while building it up. The film was so filthy you could scrape the dirt off the pads in big clumps! Then I cleaned it again with clean, freshly soaked pads by speed winding it through the platter. When I screened it I gave it another pass through the cleaner with the same pads. With two applications of FG I saw nothing out of the ordinary.

The other guy who worked with me at that time didn't know that I had already cleaned the print and loaded up yet another set of pads and gave the film a third treatment. This time the picture was awfully jittery because of too much lubrication. I stopped the machine and loaded up a set of DRY pads and continued with the screening. Everything was OK after that.

It took FOUR runs with freshly soaked pads to make the film go wonky! I'd say this is quite an extreme example but it does go toward demonstrating how hard it is to do things wrong as long as you use a little common sense.

As far as what to do with the cleaner/pads in between uses, I might suggest you take the media cleaner, pads and all, and seal it up in some kind of airtight container like a large Tupperware bowl. That way it'll stay fresher longer and you won't have to keep throwing away so much media and FilmGuard.

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