Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » ErneMann Projector Opinions (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: ErneMann Projector Opinions
Freddie Dobbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 115
From: Pinson, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 08-01-2001 08:50 PM      Profile for Freddie Dobbs   Email Freddie Dobbs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am looking into purchasing Ernemann projectors for a client, anybody have any input about them?

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-01-2001 09:10 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a very high opinion of the machine. But it requires respect of the operator to maximise its potential
There lamphouse and servor reel system is also very good

 |  IP: Logged

Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-01-2001 09:13 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
While it was only for a short time, I was impressed with what I saw.

 |  IP: Logged

Keith Madden
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 08-01-2001 10:04 PM      Profile for Keith Madden   Email Keith Madden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Sundance Film Festival bought a bunch of the 16/35 combo machines with the sidewinder 12000 foot reels. Too early to see how well they'll hold up over time. Lens barrels are awfully soft and tend to bugger up easily. A few other problems reported with bushings and electrical connectors for the 'Laser' exciter supply. The felt covered metal tension bands will get mangled easily if careless. Lamphouse hand dowser will crash into the shutter if turned back to far. Yet overall produces a steady image and is easy to operate.

But if you feel the need to take advantage of the cheap Euro and go German why not just get a Kinoton?

 |  IP: Logged

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 08-01-2001 10:49 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Check out these topics previously posted here:

Raytheon Projectors - 07-17-1999
Ernaman Projectors - 12-16-1999
ERNEMANN 15 - 07-24-2000

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-01-2001 11:37 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree that you should just go Kinoton. They are unbeatable for quality of image, sound and construction. My cost on a PK60D is considerably less than the Simplex Millenneum projector/soundhead combo plus the price includes the Kinoton basement SRD reader(which actually does work well). Its hard to believe that Sundance got suckered into buying the Ernamann stuff. I wonder who mis-led them?
MArk @ GST

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 09:11 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The ernamann is on par with the Kinoton in my opinion. It is designed on the same mind set as most precision devices not to be handled by non professionals. While it is lighter built than some it is no weaker than say the Victoria 5 which is what it is priced against.
Also many of the ernamanns get "customized" which tends to defeat some of the design features. We have several ernamanns in rental and they give almost no grief

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 09:44 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While it may produce results on a par with Kinoton, so will a finely tweeked Century for that matter. IMHO the Kinoton has far less to break down than do most other machines. Also the delrin runners are a big plus and inexpensive to replace. There are a number of Ernnamans out here and they are not very well liked. They are also not an operator friendly machine as they require attention to detail when operating. This does not fit very well into the normal non-professional theatre operating world that we live in today. The Kinoton has a much simpler path to thread up than even a Simplex does and are much more user friendly and durable.
Mark


 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 09:59 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes but the velvet bands are even more gentle on damaged prints. Also there lamphouse has a slightly higher light output than the Kinoton.
My only complaint I have had with them is the spring that couples the apperture changer and the uneveness of some of the lasers

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 01:01 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Velvet is not really needed on any of the Kinotons due to the fact that the delrin runners, gate, and film all having very similar coeficients of friction. Makes for a very nice setup and no need to mess with velvet. Velvet covered bands are really only needed on metal bands or runners to achieve similar results.
Mark @ GTS


 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 01:07 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Velvet will improve stability as each hair will act as little brakes in the perfs to control the stoping of the film across the apperture
Labs using Kinotons typically still use velvet rather than the delrin


 |  IP: Logged

Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 08-02-2001 10:45 PM      Profile for Matthew Bailey   Email Matthew Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 10 screen Dickinson in my area uses Ernemanns with Big Sky platters & XCN consoles. I wonder what problems Dickinson is
having with these brand new machines.

 |  IP: Logged

Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-03-2001 12:01 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Dickinson seems to like them. They've been installing them since their 20-plex in metro Tulsa opened in 1998 (and maybe the 14-plex in Wichita the same year).

JR Deeter could probably tell us what they think ...

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-03-2001 12:42 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stay away from them! They are such a Kinoton wanna be.

My experience with them is from the Neumade import version and it isn't a happy one (Gord tells me that part of the problem is the Neumade/Ernemann combination and what Neumade changed)...

But the Laser pick up is a bad joke...just look at the X-Y plot and you will see what I mean...laser light uniformity is also a joke...and even if you overlook all of that....the laser failure rate is still enormous...4 failed lasers in less than one year on 11 screens that we service...and remember, failed lasers mean NO sound...a show stopper.

The wiring looks like a hobbiest did the work...in-line header pins are used extensively for connecting things like the LED and laser power supply.

The digital reader constuction is way too fragile...had one board separate from it's lens tube....alignment is also way too complicated with poorly accessable lock down screws (factory aligned, you know).

The pad rollers tend to unscrew each time the operator threads. The sprockets are not attached to the sprocket shafts with anything other than friction of the outboard hold down screw....no screw, pin key...nothing.

The gate....ah now this is a mixed bag....yes they do have velvet tension bands...you'll be lucky to get 6months out of them too....do they help the steadiness...can't really tell you, the machine picks up a lot of vibration, magnifies it in the turret and projects a shakey image, irrespective of what is going on in the gate! On thing is for damn sure, the velvet bands keep the focal plane far enough away from the aperture plate that a soft and large aperture shadow will result with the typical short focal lengths these days. Oh, and for you auto aperture lovers out there...the tension bands often lightly rest on the aperture plate so when the plate moves, the bands may come into the picture a bit. Is that what you wanted? The aperture plate moves via a bent up paper clip that is driven by a motor that runs into a stall or until the paper clip breaks...which ever comes first.

The turret...one hardly knows where to begin....The minisule lens clamping screws that can fall out (they use genuine tape in shipping to hold them in)...if you adjust the lens offset to compensate for keystoning you might cause the lens to stop rotation as the lens receiver hits the microswitches. The turret support is a joke...see above...it is a vibration magnifier.

The non-op side....could they use smaller pulleys? Oh better yet when you tension the belt the tensioning pully flexes since it is only supported on one side....How much oil is in the projector? The world may never know...they no longer have peep holes and it is sealed up case! The theory is, you drain a liter out, you put a liter in...nice theory, stupid, but a nice theory. The motor support also seems to have flex in it. It seems to set up a nice beat frequency with other vibrations, including the projector drive belt...which gets magnified in the turret!

Nope, anyone that would put in the projectors (11 of them) that I saw in operation isn't interested in presentation, picture or sound...they are pretty pieces of junk.

So put me down for "don't recommend"

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-03-2001 08:57 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve said"The non-op side....could they use smaller pulleys? Oh better yet when you tension the belt the tensioning pully
flexes since it is only supported on one side....How much oil is in the projector? The world may never know...they
no longer have peep holes and it is sealed up case! The theory is, you drain a liter out, you put a liter in...nice
theory, stupid, but a nice theory"
Yes it is sealed so is the Pro35 and the DP75

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.