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Topic: "TIGHT-WRAPPING"

James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 09-02-2001 12:06 PM

What I am referring to is threading the take-up carriage an our Strong platters in a "Z" formation instead of the "ZIG-ZAG" formation so the print takes up around the center ring tightly and makes it easier to move.

The question I have is wheter or not this could possibly damage the film by creating cinch marks or the platter system by putting too much strain on the motor.

Some of the people in my booth like to do this on Thursday nights and I have never seen any damage result from this, but I was wondering if anybody else has ever done this and found it to be a bad idea.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 09-02-2001 05:36 PM

I have done this on the newer lp270 platter systems by speco....the older specos you had an up down up down direction on the acumulater then they decided to add two more rollers so it is up down, up down, up down... what I do when I know I have to move a print is take the film up to one of the three rollers on top of the acumulator section. Then instead of going to the first roller on the varica slider i take it to the second roller on the top of the acumulator section then down to the second roller on the variac slider and back up. I have not had any problems with this type of configuration.

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Rick Long Jr
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 211
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 09-02-2001 09:04 PM

I've seen this done before. Possible problems are that when you remove the centre ring, the film may collapse inward, making for a messy and scary payout. It may also make the operator a little to overconfident and try to get away without using clamps, which is just nuts. Instead of threading in a "Z" formation I think it would be better to thread up to the first roller as you would normally, then go down under both bottom rollers, then up. I think this way would be easier on both the film and the carraige, as a "Z" formation would put more lateral force on the system than it was designed for. Personnaly, I am a firm believer in using the equipment in the way the manufacturer intended it to be used. More often than not, a shortcut can end up costing you more time in the long run, especially if you drop a print!

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-03-2001 12:52 AM

I hear people asking about things like this all the time. As far as I'm concerned, you should always use the equipment the way it was intended, except for the occasional emergency situation. (Like using the makeup table to run the platter when something breaks.) The thing that bothers me is that YOU are smart enough to know how to do things like this but other people who see you do this aren't. When they try to copy you and do it wrong... THAT'S when things get messed up. You just can't give one person permission to do things a different way from everybody else, no matter how well-intentioned the reason. I know it's stooping to the lowest common denominator (and I HATE that) but when you have 10 theatres and over 100 projectors and somewhere around 50 people to worry about you HAVE to have everybody doing things exactly the same way. You're asking for trouble if you don't.

If you are worrying about dropping prints, just make sure EVERYBODY in your building knows how to do it right. Always use 4 clamps... more for large prints. Always have two people moving prints.... NEVER NEVER move prints by yourself. Not only can you drop a print, you can get hurt. (We can always hire another booth worker but DAMAGING FILM would be a tragedy! )
One bad habit I see people doing is to pick up a print by the clamps and expext them to hold the weight of a big print. You should be holding the print with your hands/arms underneath the print, cradling it to support the weight.
A trick I have seen used in some places is to use one of those big RubberMaid® trash cans on wheels as a cart. (Just make sure it's clean!) The only thing you have to worry about then is that the can might tip over on you and dump the print on the floor if you aren't careful. If you had some kind of cart that would hold a print, that might be a good idea.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 09-04-2001 02:36 PM

Excessive take-up tension can cause an uneven wind or "spoking". If the film has excessive tension over a sprocket, the perforations may be stressed, deformed or damaged. Really high tension may actually "stretch" the film permanently.

SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 106 recommends film tension be only 4.4 N (16 ozf) or less, with 1.7 N (6 ozf) being preferred.

I second Randy's warning about improper handling of large rolls when moving film between platters. I like to say it is like Russian Roulette --- 5 times out of 6 you get away with it, but the 6th time you have a bloody mess to clean up off the floor.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 09-04-2001 03:12 PM

James: It won't hurt your platter system, but I question why you would need to do this. If your variac rails are clean and properly adjusted, the film should wrap quite tight even when it is threaded normally. I have some Potts and Strong platters that start wrapping loosely sometimes, and it is usually because the variac is sticking a bit, or the rheostat (the current controller that the variac is attached to) has gotten stiff and needs disassembly and cleaning. Also, with the 5-deck the top variac rod can get bumped and get a slight bend in it, and since it is a rod inside another rod it causes the rods to bind and the film to not wrap as tightly.

I have never had a platter wrap a film so loosely that it couldn't be moved safely. And on top of that you have the strong hub rings, which lock in the open position and are wonderful for moving prings. Some Speco and Christie rings are terrible.

It is interesting that so many here are constantly expounding that it is absolutely terrible to move a print by yourself. While I certainly think that it is a lot better to have someone help you (in most cases), it is not difficult for someone to move an average length print by themselves. You have to realise that, like it or not, it is a fact that theatres are cutting costs. Late on a Thursday night I am sometimes here alone...and only sometimes have one person that stays in the lobby. I move prints here nearly always by myself. I sometimes walk two (one on each shoulder) from one booth to another. In 15 years or so I have not had a problem (except one time that I fell down the stairs, but I am trying to forget about that!)

...BUT, I will not let any member of my staff move a print by themselves...if I drop I lose $$$ and it is MY fault, but with the others it is a different story...

interesting thought that I just had...I sometimes think that it is MORE dangerous to move a print with a buddy. It is much safer (IMHO) to carry the print vertically than horizontally, and sometimes in the past when my staff has been moving prints they have dropped them because of lack of coordination in walking, and had dropouts from the center. You cant have that problem carrying a print vertically.

Whew...that was a damn long post. Sorry...in a bit of a ramblin' mood today.

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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 09-04-2001 03:32 PM

And James: If you still cannot get your Strongs to wrap any tighter, you can add a LITTLE bit of weight to the variac...just nylon tie a couple ounces of something onto it out of the way. Don't overdo it or you will cause problems. I have done this before, mostly in theatres where there is an exceptionally long run of film going back to the platter...so much that the weight of the film run is almost as much as the variac.

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 09-05-2001 01:44 AM

I personally dont have a need for "tightwrapping" and i rarely ever bother, but some of the guys in my booth like to do it if they know it has to move after that show. I dont have any problems with the platters wrapping them too lose either.

I also prefer to move prints myself unless it is more that 2 1/2 hours long. Most of the people I have worked with moved prints by themselves also with no problems. We also dont use clamps. We use the sides from some old 12000 foot reels that were taken apart before my time and used as "print movers." They work fine and mre actually easier to use in my opinion.

And you are right, Wes. SPECO rings are terrible. But then again, I hated everything I ever had to use from SPECO. At the first theatre I worked at, we replaced the ORC platters they opened with and put in SPECO. The ORC rings fit the SPECOs just fine and we only used the SPECO rings if we had to.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 09-05-2001 02:30 PM

Replacing Speco with ORC seems like a lateral move to me

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Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-06-2001 08:50 AM

Please use your equipment the way it was intended to be used. Trying to take shortcuts can end in disaster.

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