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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Topic: TA-10 burning up Kelmar CO dousers
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man
Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-26-2001 08:05 PM
Is it possible for a TA-10 to lock up in the middle of a cycle and fry a douser? So far, one fried in one city, (it was a Zipper) and one brand new TA-10 automation fried a Kelmar. My documentation is so skimpy that I can't determine squat! I have no roadmap on that system. Just a book that says "Punch the button" to make it go. Has anyone else fried CO dousers with the TA-10? If so, what caused it? Paul
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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-26-2001 11:15 PM
As Aaron sez, this is unusual with a TA-10 (we have about a hundred of them in service in this area). Any chance of a sticking manual button?BTW did it fry the open or close side of the coil? Retro-thinking, we did lose 2 coils, (both on the close side and both Kelmar), but no apparent cause. In both cases, replaced the coils - no further problems).
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man
Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-27-2001 01:12 AM
It worked fine all through the runs - until the last one, apparently.....Not much to go on, though. I hate these type of troubles you have to second guess. But when you have popcorn salespeople pushing the button, anything can be expected.The open coil is what fried. Paul
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 09-27-2001 08:30 AM
Paul said: "the person who was running the projectors only knows four things: 1. Location of the start button.
2. Location of focus knob.
3. Location of the frame knob.
4. Location of the break room." Hey, at least they know where the focus and framing knobs are! Hopefully, they spend more time checking presentation quality than they do in the break room.  (And Brad and Joe will remind us that a good projectionist shouldn't even need a framing knob  ) ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted 09-27-2001 12:53 PM
I have waited to respond to this until I could consult with our Technical Service guy, Don Olson, because he is the one who interfaces with the real world. He reports that he has never seen this as a result of program error, but in a couple of cases, and only with Zippers, there have been welded together relay contacts. In other systems he has seen Kelmar's dousers fry to the point of smelling pretty bad, but still not burn out. This seems to be in agreement with other posts above. The douser relays in the TA-10 normally get a 300 millisecond pulse and this is a software thing. (Note to Randy: the lower power relays are all controlled by the processor, not the Event strapping.) We have had those rare cases of one of the relays welding its contacts together, but these always turned out to be excessive load downstream. You might want to compare the current draw between this douser and another one. Shorted turns come to mind. The fuse idea is certainly a viable option, but I would worry that the "operator" would not know how to find or deal with a blown fuse in the middle of the night. With Zippers a 3/4 Amp Slo-Blo has been found to be about right. They will fatigue, however, and have to be replaced a couple of times a year. Finally, there is the old dodge of wiring a 200 watt light bulb in series with the coil. The theory here is that because a tungsten filament lamp has an inrush current something like 14 times its operating current, the douser gets a good strong initial pulse which quickly becomes limited by higher resistance when the filament gets hot. Paul, if you will e-mail me your mailing address I shall send you a TA-10 manual. ------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man
Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-27-2001 01:24 PM
Thanks, Bill. The lightbulb thing is a good idea. I never thought of that one. Paul
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