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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Topic: Odd number of surrounds
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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999
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posted 10-20-2001 07:44 AM
Seriously, I have never liked to serial wire speakers,or use series resistors with the circuit. Reason, it interferes with the power amp's damping factor. The damping is neccessairy to prevent woofers from nonlinear traveling, degrading the sound quality. It is sometime not economical to use extra power amps, but with 10 Ohm surrounds (also around), 5 can be paralleled to a single power amp, and normally this gives ample drive to each. If you're using 4 Ohm amps, a matching Xformer is the better vway. To avoid those saturation and inductivity effects a high quality, large type is recommended to use, but can be as expensive as another power amp. What to recommend to Greg, ... I do not know.Stefan
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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster
Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 10-20-2001 12:07 PM
Stefan, I really disagree with you about using matching transformers for surround speakers. There are several reasons why not to use them. First, 1, You say you want to maintain the usable damping factor of an amplifier....Using the transformer would lessen any benefits from a high damping factor just by inserting it in the circuit as you are now going through the transformer windings. Even with a very high quality transformer you could never maintain the original high damping factor. I might consider using an autoformer here but core saturation is still an issue at high levels and damping factor, which is not as critical an issue as some think is still lessened. 2, The transformer would have to be really large to be able to handle all the power required for digital levels, and not run into core saturation, especially at low frequencys. Adding a resistor is much preferable and won't lower the damping factor by any more than if you inserted another speaker. Another benefit of the resistor is that you can get them non-inductive. So the resistor will have less effect on the sound overall than a transformer would ever. The transformer would cost at least 20 times the price of the highest quality US made non-inductive resistor. What Greg should really do is to buy more of a smaller type of surround speaker and an amp that can handle two ohm loads. This will give three benefits... 1. Improved coverage and less localization effect. 2. The surrounds can then be wired for either 4 ohms or 2 ohms, all in parallel which is the preferred way to wire them. There are way less phase problems that will occur at different frequencys than if the sound for the next speaker in line had already passed through another speaker. Also, good used power amps are a dime a dozen these days. Just check E-Bay. 3. More surrounds equals more level which equals less overall distortion level. Mark @ GTS
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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler
Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 10-21-2001 04:16 AM
I agree with Mark.Stay clear of transformers, they will just degrade performance. You should also be cautious when running speaker systems below 4 ohms unless you are familiar with the characteristics of the speakers and amplifier you are using. The rated impedance of a speaker is a "nominal" impedance - the actual impedance may vary considerably over the frequency range. Some speakers are worse in this respect than others and it is not unusual for a speaker rated at 4 ohms to have impedance dips well below 2 ohms at some frequencies. Unless the amplifer can handle this you can end up with amplifier overload in certain parts of the frequency spectrum. That's not to say don't use 2 ohms, just be judicious in your choice of equipment. Another tip, never use less than two pair of surround speakers, even in your home system. And if you can only manage two pair, make sure that one pair is mounted just in front of, and the other pair just behind, the main listening area. This will give the best dispersion of the surround sound field. ------------------ Ray Derrick President Panalogic Corporation Pty Limited 44 Carrington Road Castle Hill NSW 2154 Australia Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 10-21-2001 01:03 PM
Ray (and others),Many of the amplifiers out there can now safely handle 2-Ohm nominal impedance loads (per/channel). QSC has a marvelous amplifier the DCA-1222 that can run with 1.6-Ohm loads all day...in fact that was one of it's design criteria. QSC also has a 4-channel amplifier that will handle down to 2-Ohms a channel. This not only has the obvious EX potential but allows one to break up the surround array so that one can run all speakers in parallel up to a 16-surround array. As to the imedance curves...this really isn't too much of an issue in movie theatres and particularly on the surrounds. Most of the low-impedance part of the curve of most speakers is in the very low frequency. Most of the surround speakers in use today have an LF cutoff below 80Hz or 50Hz (depending on size and quality). Most cinema processors (and some amps, like QSC) offer the ability to high-pass the surround channel to either 50Hz and above. As such, one never will have the low part of the impedance curve come into play. As a side note for the DTS users out there. DTS places their subwoofer track onto the Ls and Rs surround channels. It is REAL important to high-pass your surrounds at a frequency at or above where your surrounds can safely play. If you have ever used the emperical test disc and played the sweep section, you will hear when the subwoofer section comes...a distinct "flapping" sound at first when the sweep first starts....that isn't your subwoofer but the poor hapless surround cones flapping about. Another reason to high-pass is it simply wastes amplifier power and potentially will damage the speaker to have a surround speaker play below it's cutoff frequency. Steve ------------------ "Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
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