|
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
|
Author
|
Topic: "amelie" subtitles out of focus?
|
|
|
|
|
John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
|
posted 12-18-2001 08:01 AM
There are several methods of making subtitles:1. They can be optically or digitally printed, such that they are part of the duplicate negative used for release printing. 2. They can be "bi-pack" printed, where the subtitles are printed from a separate B&W negative "sandwiched" with the picture negative. 3. They can be "chemically etched" on the film, using a bleach solution controlled by a wax stencil coated on the processed print, and later removed. 4. Laser subtitles use a high powered laser to burn away the print film emulsion in the lettered area. Method 1 usually produces sharp titles, since the subtitles are actually part of the image on the printing negative. Method 2 may be less sharp, since you are printing through two thicknesses of film. Methods 3 and 4 may focus differently, since the picture is contained within the emulsion, and the titles are bare film base. ------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243 E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Danny Hart
Film Handler
Posts: 50
From: St Andrews, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2000
|
posted 12-20-2001 07:01 PM
We had focus problems with this film, too. But I blame this on our head projectionist. He insists that every screen is as bright as possible, completely ignoring the standards. I actually find them annoyingly bright, to the point where watching for too long gives me a headache. When I turned them down, he turned them back up and I was told never to interfere with them again.I fould the overall focus on Amelie was greatly improved when it moved to our hall with the lowest brightness - which is still above the standard (and as high as he can push it.) It was actually a great print and looked superb when shown in this way. A bit off-topic, but I showed a subtitled film recently (can't remember what it was, but it wasn't a new film) and the subtitles had a major flaw - they were pure white text, which meant if there was, for example, a close-up of someone speaking who was wearing a white shirt, the subtitles disappeared into the shirt and couldn't be read. I would have thought a basic rule of subtitling would be white text with a black outline, which would make it visible on ANY background.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
|
posted 12-27-2001 01:20 PM
Aaron Haney asked: "Is that due to it being so bright that the 48Hz flicker becomes visible enough to cause eye strain? Maybe if all the projectors had triple-bladed shutters that wouldn't be a problem?"Yes, a three-blade shutter would raise the flicker rate to 72 interruptions per second, so flicker would be much less of an issue if the screen luminance was too high. But going above the 22 footlambert limit specified by standard SMPTE 196M will also change the appearance of the print from what was approved by the director and cinematographer --- highlights will be brighter, colors more saturated, and you may see details in the shadows that you were not meant to see: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/spring98/pointers.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/notes/march2000/pytlak.shtml The bottom line: try to maintain a screen luminance close to 16 footlamberts, which is how the prints were intended to be shown.
------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243 E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
| IP: Logged
|
|
Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
|
posted 12-28-2001 06:59 AM
Even though we encounter all the different subtitling methods that John mentioned, the etched ones are always the best in terms of their never being washing out no matter how white the image is. This is because even though an area in the image may indeed seem "white," the light is still passing through how ever little emulsion is still there; the laser or bleach burns away that layer and it will always be "whiter" than the whitest image made by the emulsion. I used to think, "how nice, subtitles to get an easy, perfect focus." Doesn't quite work that way with the etched subtitles. I discovered that you can focus the subtitles and find the image soft. Obviously you want to focus the picture and let the subtitles fall where they may. How much of a disparity between the hard focal point of the image and that of the etched subtitles will depend on the depth-of-field of your optical system. In a house with a short throw and large screen, the problem can be quite sever. Theatres with moderately sized screens and longer throws have a optical system that is more at the center of the optimum curve and will not experience these focus problem -- even warped film can be focused. These are the theatres where you can rack the focus knob back and forth and see practically no change because there is a steep depth-of-field -- the lens is focusing in front and in back of the exact point of the film. But in theatres where the depth-of-field is shallow, there is only ONE place where you get perfect focus....not a micro before it or behind it. With those systems, just the difference in the thickness of the emulsion is enough to kick the subtitles out of focus. Danny hinted on something though -- the amount of light passing through the lens can affect depth-of-field; you can improve the depth-of-field by increasing the gross light output of the lamphouse and then irising down the lens opening, much like you increase the depth-of-field in a camera by stopping down the lens. I saw this done once to amazing effect. He was trying to compensate for a print with some serious warpage. He cut a circle out of piece of "black wrap" and put this on the casing of the rear end of the lens. He experimented with the size of the hole and after a lot of hit and miss, he was able to strike a balance between cutting back the light and increasing the depth-of-field so that the focus problem, while it didn't totally disappear on some of the really badly warped reels, it made a decided difference for most of the show. What I could never understand is why they just don't print the subtitles in the wasted black area below the image. Seems to me that would eliminate a host of problems. You could use the printing method to make your subtitles rather than etching -- no focus problems, they would always be in focus because they are in the same emulsion position as the image....also, there wouldn't be any image movement distracting the eye while it's trying to read them -- just nice white text on a black background. But then again, I also can't understand why they are subtitles to begin with. In a theatre the bottom of the screen is the most difficult to see. Why aren't they SUPERtitles -- put them at the top of the screen....again in the wasted black area. But that would be thinking a bit TOO far out of the box, eh?
| IP: Logged
|
|
Peter Berrett
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 602
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
|
posted 12-30-2001 07:39 PM
Here in Australia our multicultural station (SBS) does a lot of subtitling.Their policy is to put the subtitles in yellow which is much clearer to read. Films are shown on standard tv in their full aspect ratio thus leaving black bars top and bottom. SBS puts the subtitles in the lower black bar which makes for better enjoyment of the film. I might as well click on this link It is a bit galling that in this day of high technology, digital prints etc one still goes to a see a Teletota subtitled film and struggles to see the words because the white subtitles get lost in the background. Would it be so technologically difficult to develop a low cost projection system to display subtitles immediately below the picture frame? The system could read digitally encoded subtitles from the soundtrack or from some other encoding method. I think that this would significantly improve viewing pleasure of foreign films. How many times have you struggled to read the subtitles on a foreign film because they blended in with the background? cheers Peter
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|