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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: State Electrical Inspectors. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man
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Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-18-2002 10:45 PM
We hired an electrical contractor to wire in a control relay in our ORC consoles so it would allow the LED projector to energize when the projector motor shut down. OK - so far - no problem.Next: The contractor had to obtain an electrical permit from the state to legally do it. Jeeze..... So the electrician put an ice cube relay (Cutler-Hammer) in the system to allow the receptical feeding the LED projector to switch on when the projector shut down. No problem. Now the electrical inspector said "fuse the relay coil".....(that circuit is already fused.....) But that's ok - whatever spins the inspector's crank, I guess.... Enter electrical inspector. He did not like the wire. He wanted stranded conductor instead of solid conductor. (what a jerk) Now he wants documentation on the fuse holder, relay and the relay socket to make sure it is "UL" approved. ![](http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/mad.gif) Now the inspector wants us to go back to ORC to get documentation to make sure the ORC Console can handle an extra 1/10 of an amp without overloading and tripping the 60 amp breaker. Grrrrrr... Pardon me, gentlemen, but I think this electrical inspector should buy a life at "K" Mart. We hire a contractor to do minor work. We can't legally do any minor work such as this now, as we could get a hefty fine if we did and got caught doing it in this state. Please don't get me wrong.....I am for electrical safety. All our electrical parts come from commercial suppliers such as Johnstone, Grainger, All-Phase Electric, and Platt Electric. We do our best to stay away from the hardware stores. Much of that hardware store stuff is sub-standard. Four things come to mind. 1. The electrical inspector has to justify his job. 2. The state makes money on permits. 3. Electrical inspectors like to think they are God. 4. If they have a bad day, their philosophy seems that it is necessary to ruin everybody's day. To top it off, the electrical contractor we hired is a journeyman, licensed and bonded, and has been doing electrical contracting work for years! Everyone I talked to while I was trying to get practically non-existant documentation in ice cube relays and minor stuff like that agree that some - but not all inspectors - are a bunch of jerks. Maybe I have a bad attitude, but if one of these jerks expects me to hire an electrical contractor to change a hard-wired Xenon Power Supply complete with a permit to do so can just KMA! Paul.
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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler
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Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-19-2002 01:56 AM
Hey Paul I can relate to your problem, over a year ago I did an install in Monroe Wa. I knew about the Electrican union & they had to wire in the consoles, but I did not know the low voltage was included, I wired up all (9) sound racks & was on my last one when the electrical inspector came in & ask to see my permit, when I asked what permit, the booth was RED TAG !! one of the union electrican turned me in, yes I was fined $2,000.00 for wiring the sound racks, it was later dismissed, I was told by bthe inspector that we could mount or connect the surround speakers, the electrican was way behind schedule, we were trying to help them not screwed them around when one electrican called the union & report me....well now they had to mount 180 surround speakers & teminate them...whoooaaa weeeee was they pissed off about that, then they had the nerve to ask me to please help them install & connect the speakers so they can meet the opening date without being sued for failing to complete as schedule...I said not only no But HELL NOOOO, you guys turned me in to the electrical inspector & you exspect me to help you guy out, Noooo you were ordered by the inspector to mount & termiate the speakers, put on extra men if you have to, I'm not touching a damn thing....this cost the electrical contractor overtime, extra men power, I told them if the speakers are not connected correctly you'll have to do them again, the booth is Red tag because of you guys, deal with it & have it ready before opening date...it was...of course I did not make friends in Washington State...we had the electrical contractor inspect our sound racks so we can remove the RED TAG, this guy passed it, but didn't have a clue what he was looking at, he took my word that the wiring was correct.....but I now found a loop hole in that law, the next time I work in Washington State I will use it on the sound racks.....so I can relate to the electrical inspection in Wa.....I was told by the inspector anything over 5-volts has to be wired by a license electrican.....I just shook by head & said OK !! You don't want to piss off a inspector !!
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man
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Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-19-2002 05:17 AM
Ray, even in the NEC Book in the USA, there are still many things that seem to be obsolete. But slowly, the "Board" is getting off their gold-plated asses and getting it up to date. Biggest problem I see is the way it was written. For instance, the NEC book states something to the effect that "rectifiers shall be in a separate room, if at all possible"......but some damn inspector that doesn't know the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground will red-tag the booth because the line was interpertated as "shall be" in a separate room, Period! End of story. Cast in stone. No compromise. None whatsoever. After that SOB signs off the contractor's work, I just might make a formal complaint to Washington State. We "ditched" one electrical inspector in this area about 10 years ago. He was getting too many complaints, so the State of Washington transferred him to Snohomish County. I wonder if that was the inspector that Don Sneed tangled with? Don, I'll send you his name via private email, just for the helluva it to see if it is the same person we ditched from Skagit County.
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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster
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Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-19-2002 09:30 AM
Believe it or not, in Oregon, by law, an individual has to get a permit to even hook up audio speakers at home. I can't say I've ever had any of these problems except for having to do a small punch list for an inspector here and there. The best way around this problem is to have a face to face meeting with the local inspector in his office before you commence any job so you and he are straight on what criteria you HAVE to meet. This way you'll know about any permits that may need to be pulled, things you can and cannot do yourself, etc. Another thing you can do is to put it in your sales/install contract(you're all smart enough to actually have one now aren't you?)so that the customer has to pull any required local permits himself. That gets it off your back and if you are caught it goes back to him. You may have to stop and tour the city/countryside for a day or so while he straightens it out but that beats going to court, or better than having to return to timbuck too to return to court. Of all the booths I've installed I've actually done 50% of them as complete installs, meaning everything, including conduit runs, from the main breaker panel(s) in the booth to the machines/consoles. Some areas local inspectors don't care if its done that way. Also, most electricians pass out when seeing the insides of a new Strong X-90 equipped with a CNA 100 or similar. All of a sudden you have a new "best buddy" and he could care less if you wire up everything yourself. At any rate, there are ways to avoid this stuff from happenning. I can't speculate what hapened in Pauls case, perhaps the inspector and electrician had a run in before Pauls theatre, but the best thing that could have happened is that Paul would have hooked em up himself and not said anything about it. Paul is more than capable, and who'd have ever known? Mark @ GTS
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man
![](http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/paulpics.cgi)
Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-19-2002 02:38 PM
Greg, Remember that flap about a new tax in Seattle called a "View Tax"? Well, that went over like a lead balloon. Oh, did you know that you have to buy a permit to remove and dispose a rotten stump from your property? I am not kidding. It is called a "Stump Permit." Probably was named after the remains of the Governor's genitalia after he sat on a toilet seat equipped with a "Salami Cutter." ![](http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) As far as electrical inspectors, and other inspectors as well, is they have a tendency to usurp their authority to settle a personal grudge. In addition, they often use their own interpretation of the code books, rather than to actually find out how it is supposed to be interperted. Here's another, although it is not really related: Once I called the sheriff to ticket a car that was so illegally parked in the street that it not only created a traffic safety hazard, but it was partially blocking my driveway. The Deputy came out, looked at it, and did nothing. I called them back, and the dispatcher indicated that the Deputy did not think it was a hazard, and tough luck about it blocking my driveway. I told the dispatcher that I was not particularly interested in the Deputy's personal opinion, and I was more interested on how the law was written. The dispatcher became a little indignant, and I immediately demanded a meeting with the sheriff himself. Almost immediately, the Deputy returned, and told the owner to move the car. Of course, the Deputy watched me like a hawk for the next several weeks. Come to find out, the owner of the car was the Deputy's buddy.
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Randy Stankey
Film God
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Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-21-2002 09:20 AM
Jeez! It's right in the NEC handbook!IF the booth is going to be a nitrate-safe booth, then all the electrical equipment (that could ignite the film) is to be in a seperate room, etc. etc... IF the booth is NOT going to handle nitrate then you can install electrical equipment in the same way you would install it in any other (similar) commercial environment. In some cases you need to post a placquard on the entrance(s) to the booth... "Safety Film ONLY". Sounds like the inspector doesn't know his own code. ![](http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/confused.gif) The whole proof is placquarded right on every projector... "Professional use only... Not for use with nitrate film..." If the projectors aren't fit for running nitrate then there is NO WAY the booth can be nitrate-safe. Thus, there is no need to apply the more stringent standards.
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