This reminded me of the CP45 error where they had a diagram in the CP45 manual showing Non-sync select on pin 8 of a DA20 instead of pin 7. They had to bring out a little board to correct that one. I guess we will see a little board now for the 650.

Now I don't want to point the finger at the people who invented sound, (oh, sorry, that was Tom Homlinson wasn't it, it was Dolby who patented it ), but this is a bit sloppy fellas!

The CP-650's format 10 is indeed selected by pin-4 on the automation connnector...there is no mistake.

Since the technician is trying to use a DA-20, they want pin-5 for "External Digital Input", not "format-10" persay.

Steve

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If it is merely to play Dolby Digital, then yes the CP-650 digital board is substantially less expensive than a DA-20.

Steve

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Does this mean I have to take back my little poke at Dolby?

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Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935

After all, the CP-65 expects a DA-20 so if one is going to swap out a CP-65 for a CP-650SR, then one would want the pin-5 to be external 6-ch input so that the wiring would remain the same! Only if the CP-65 AND the DA-20 were to leave in favor of a CP-650D would it be an issue. That would be the responsibility of the installing technician to reconfigure the automation to select the correct format.

Steve

Philippe

Besides, it seems a little strange having a processor that has a button marked "Format 10 Dolby Digital" which when a DA20 is connected doesn't work because the Format 11 button now controls Format 10. Very messy. It would have made more sense to make the Format 10 button optionally select the external input for applications using a DA20. That way there would never have been any wiring issues in the first place. On second thoughts I don't take it back... it IS sloppy. Ah never mind

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Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935

The claim is that the CP-650 is compatible with the CP-65. That is, if you merely remove the CP-65 and replace it with a CP-650, the automation plug will still function as before.

The format 10/11 thing is only whether it is an internal or external on the CP-650 (or CP-500, as Brad points out). When used with a DA-20 it is an external format and is "format 11".

At best, your claim could be that format 11 should have been "internal Dolby Digital" and should have been created when the CP-500 came out...thus format 10 would always denote external digital (Dolby or otherwise)and be a "backward compatable" number.

But lets get right down to it...the format numbers really only ment something to mighty CP-200 where the numbers were actually used to select the formats.

One of my minor complaints with the CP-650 is that the buttons have the 01, 04, 05, 10, 11, U1, U2, NS designations. These mean nothing to the casual user. This is more of an issue in the special venue houses where the operators don't think of the sound formats in terms of numbers, they want it written out without needing a "secret decoder ring."

But back to the topic...on this issue I'll stand with sloppy technician, not sloppy Dolby.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Ah Steve, but this is the problem, it won't still function as before, and this was my whole point! The automation no longer selects Format 10 - it now selects Format 11. So pull out a CP65/DA20 combo and replace it with a CP650-D (as occurred in this case, maybe I didn't make this clear in my second post) and you have to swap over pins 4 and 5 of the automation cable. At least with the CP500 you could easily correct this problem by re-assigning the formats between SK4 and 5.

Frankly, why Dolby have retained the format number thing is a mystery to many of us, because as you say, it only means anything in relation to the CP200. But if they are going to retain something, they should be consistent. Dolby SR is Format 05 regardless of whether it is from internally installed SR cards or from an external SRA5, so why "break the rules" and make Dolby Digital different, depending on whether it is internal or external. Format 11 should really be called "Digital 2" or "6-track 2" or "External" or whatever, and should refer to non-Dolby digital (or some other 6 track source). It would make life less confusing for everybody!

The whole point of my orignal post was to bring this little pin-out discrepancy to the attention of others (of course I couldn't resist the opportunity to have a little dig at Dolby in the process). In retrospect the post was poorly named and should have read something like "CP650 wiring discrepancy" rather than "goof" however at the time it appeared to be an error. I concede that rather than an error it comes down to a matter of judgment, and one that I do not agree with.

Now that is as close to a retraction as you are going to get, young Steve.

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Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935

For necessity, that is how it needs to be and how it should be (so as to allow DA-20s and SA-10s and such) to be backwards compatable. If I were the designer of that aspect of the unit, I would have done the same thing.

However, if I were designing a cinema processor, I would have probably taken the format number thing a bit further since I thought it was a wonderful idea. I would have the automation select the format strictly by format number rather than by button or softkey.

If it were doable (and my research shows it isn't) I would have the U1, U2 and NS keys reformatable by merely changing some BDC thumbwheels (ala CP-200) to select what funtion they perform. As such, this won't be one of my improvement systems. The CP-650 just doesn't have enough buttons, period and what buttons one has are barely reconfigurable (and only three of them at that).

I think your issue with the CP-650 automation connector is a difference of approach between your methods and theirs rather than right or wrong. Now, do you want to explain to me again why the Panastereo CSP-1200 automation connector for DTS (and labeled as such) is the opposite gender of what the standard DTS cables would need? That is, it is female and standard DTS automation connectors are male (opposite gender of the audio).

Steve

Steve, Steve, Steve, (expecting a "Ray, Ray, Ray" reply) I am sure you know by now that I have great respect for your knowlege and ability, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

As for the DTS automation input on the 1200, it is indeed reverse sex (and I am not going into the long-winded story as to why) but at least it is PIN-COMPATIBLE with the DTS-6D players. Plug in a two dollar sex changer, or use an off-the-shelf male-to-male cable and away you go, no re-soldering required. If DTS had stuck with convention and used the correct sex in the first place (or if they bothered to supply a CSP1200 kit)... yadi, yadi, yadi.

Now that's it, I'm outta here!!!

Old audio guys never die.. they just get bored more easily!!