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Topic: Exactly WHAT type of oil is BEST for the intermittent?

Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-06-2002 11:17 PM

Well? .... I'm not new to machinery, but new to projectors .... the old guy here uses a mix of Castrol Motorcycle fork oil and Shellite ?!?!?!?!?!?!? .... This can't be right! ... Is it?

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 02-06-2002 11:27 PM

You should use the oil recommended by the manufacturer as there are differences from one make to another. Some also swear by LaVezzi's synthetic oil (LaVezzi is the company that makes the critical intermittent parts for many well known projectors.) But certainly not some homemade mixture.

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-07-2002 01:01 AM

The projectors are 'Monee' ..... I know what you're thinking .... but that's all we've got. The Model# is MSP-AT , which probably doesn't tell anyone very much.

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-07-2002 01:22 AM

.. Oh ... and the manual tell you sweet-diddily about which lubricants to use

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-07-2002 01:51 AM

Aye, mate......I use Hydraulic Oil AW ISO 10 anti-wear High-Speed Spindle Oil in Brenkerts (Brenkert Oil) and Texaco WF-32 in the Simplex XL, Century, Cineshittie. The only time I had a movement freeze up and self-distruct is when someone ran it out of oil.

I don't know anything about the Monee....but be careful of the concoption you use in it. Until you find out, I would suggest you stay with the manufacturer's recommendation.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-07-2002 02:32 AM

Some will tell you as the Monee is just a copy of the Century that you should use Century oil in them. However, oil specification has a lot to do with the grades of material in use, and I doubt that Monee use the same grades of steel as Strong. Just look at the way the things wear compared with the Century! Over here the Monee agent supplies some form of oil specifically for Monee. I have no idea what it is, but it's about the same viscosity as Century stuff, darker in colour and smells like vegetable oil.
The Lavezzi oil sounds like a good idea, if they don't know what to lubricate cross-boxes with, the rest of us don't stand much chance!

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-07-2002 09:21 AM

After reading the DP70 manual. I asked the Tech hotline guy at Shell to give me the modern day equivalent of the manufacture's outdated oil specification. He says "Shell Turbo T 46". So I use that. If that Lavezzi oil wasn't so darned expensive, I'd use that

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-07-2002 09:41 AM

I'm the guy that Steve K. knows that swears by LaVezzi oil. Since the Monee is a direct copy of the Century Projector the use of the LaVezzi stuff is highly reccommended. Al LaVezzi himself will tell you that the life of the intermittent can almost be extended twofold by the use of their oil. It is also a little heavier than most reccommended oils so it won't leak out of the movement as fast either. It is also used in the Christie Ultramittent as well so the use of it in older Simplex projectors would also be wise. I have also used it extensively in Norelco DP-70's. It is more expensive than any other oil though and runs just under $80.00 a gallon. I can also supply it in quart bottles as well. We always have it in stock.
On another note, expensive 35mm motiion picture cameras are lubed with a 60:40 mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and pure mineral oil. Marvel is thin so the mineral oil is there just to help keep it in place!
Mark @ GTS
www.getgts.com
mark@getgts.com

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-07-2002 09:47 AM

The Monee is the same as the cinecitta a century knockoff but the tolerances are typically also off
I usually use a slightly heaver oil in them or it will usually just run out before it does any good
Normally I use a sae30 in them nondetergent from imperial oil

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-07-2002 11:11 AM

"Al LaVezzi himself will tell you that the life of the intermittent can almost be extended twofold by the use of their oil. "

I understand the gross effects and know to follow recommendations, but I've not understood the mechanics behind such claims. I know that oil forms a thin surface that parts "rub" against rather than bare metal, but WHY is one oil better than others for a particular application? Does it have to do with operating temperature, amount of pressure between moving parts, what?
I'm sorely lacking in knowledge here.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-07-2002 12:44 PM

Jerry said: "I know that oil forms a thin surface that parts "rub" against rather than bare metal, but WHY is one oil better than others for a particular application? Does it have to do with operating temperature, amount of pressure between moving parts, what?
I'm sorely lacking in knowledge here."

The subject is so complex, you can actually get an advanced degree in "Tribology":
http://www.mech-eng.leeds.ac.uk/tribology/research.html
http://www.pim.tsinghua.edu.cn/sklt/source/tribology.html
http://www.steelynx.net/tribology.html

One of my co-workers at Kodak is a "Tribologist", an expert in the surface/frictional properties of moving parts (including film), and using lubricants to optimize those properties.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-07-2002 01:47 PM

Jerry, John,
It has more to do with how fast the oil in use breaks down, how fast it turns acedic, etc and then looses any of the lubricating qualities. You still have to rely on a filtration system to remove any particulate matter. This is one area that is lacking in most oil bath type projectors. The Brenkert and Norelco DP-70 are an exception to this problem though, the Norelco in particuluar has an excellent filtration system that utilizes a fine mesh brass screen, and large magnet for reducing particulate matter. LaVezzi oil also has an additive that permeates into the metal about a micron or so to aid in reducing friction. Not breaking down under extreme use is where synthetic oil really stands out. There is an interesting web site for Mobil-1 automotive oil that explains how it is made and why one should use it. http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp
And of course I use Mobil-1 in my car, not the stuff from LaVezzi!
Mark @ GTS

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-07-2002 01:56 PM

Using a magnet to catch tiny ferrous particles is such a good idea, I'm surprised it isn't used more. Guess the fear is it won't be properly maintained (cleaned), so all the "nasties" are in a clump that could do more harm than good.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-07-2002 02:48 PM

The magnet has almost always been standard in the prevosts, ernamann's and cinemecanica's
Though I still take exception to the magnet being beside the mag head in the penthouse of a vic 8 with the mag stripe passing right by

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-07-2002 05:15 PM

Wow you guys are a wealth of information!

What would we do with film-tech eh? (Hats off to Brad Miller) ..... My next Q is ... Does anybody know how I may find an Australian distributor for the Lavezzi oil? And is there a paticular number for the oil. (I assume they have many grades available)

Once again guys, thanks for your help .... now, do I dare ask what everyone uses for the gear side of things? Currently we use a general Valvoline wheel bearing grease that contains lithium compound (it's a blue grease Val Plex EP)

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