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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Author
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Topic: Carbon Vs Xenon
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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!
Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 02-09-2002 02:24 PM
For followspots (hey, they're projection, sorta ) I still miss the look of the carbon arc version of Strong's Short-Throw Super Trouper. As others have stated, carbon gave a very smooth look, spectrum-wise and field uniformity-wise. For some reason today's Xenon Super Troupers still don't have the "punch" of the old carbons. When they first came out, the Strong Xenons had horrible field uniformity--no adjustment of reflector or bulb would give you an evenly lit field. I guess it had something to do with Xenon having a much smaller gas ball than carbon, necessitating a much deeper reflector, and being much less forgiving of small manufacturing defects in the figure of said reflector. Today's Xenons are much improved in that regard.The feel of the new lamps is very different too. The old lamps were heavier, but smoother to operate and better balanced. The present lamps are lighter, but feel cheaper IMNSHO. Oops, my motion detectors have picked up the OT Police crossing the perimeter. Later! Paul Underemployed mercenary film/video projectionist/engineer "Otaku wa tsurai yo" <-- Yeah I know, bad Japanese pun. Sue me. It's tough being a fan!
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Gordon Bachlund
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 696
From: Monrovia, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted 02-09-2002 06:19 PM
Here's a thread I HAVE to jump into.Carbon arc lamphouses require additional effort on the part of the projectionist, but if that effort is expended, the quality of the light is outstanding and consistent. The qualified projectionists who used or still use carbon arc lamphouses spend the time to tune up the feed motors and care for the lamphouses, taking justifiable pride in their work. As Frank pointed out, there is no risk of lamp explosions. As far as cost to operate, my analysis favors Xenon only slightly. I guess it boils down to profit. Xenon filled the bill when multiple screens became the rage and unattended (or at least minimally attended) booths became the operating norm, abetted by automation systems, but all at the expense of the art of showmanship. Gone are the days when first run houses employed two (or more)licensed union projectionists, and those of us who worked in second run establishments ached to earn such seniority and skills as would enable us to climb the ladder to such prestige venues. Call me a curmudgeon, but I'm with Ken and Frank on this one!
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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-10-2002 11:19 PM
There is no doubt that carbon arc gave only what can be described as a "more exciting" light to the projected picture, despite what the specs claim.My favourite of all time was the Peerless Magnarc type G (great styling) (although the F had much heftier DC connection blocks). The Model J was nice, but without those yellow "marlbled" plastic knobs, it somehow just wasn't a Peerless. Am I the only one here who actually preferred the Strong 135 (or Mighty 90's) to the Ashcraft? (11MM X 3/8" trim). These used a bi-metal tube upon which the positive crater was focused, via mirrors, to keep the arc where it should be. My experience with these was such that once you lit and stabilized the arc, you could forget it and go make up film without having to worry about it. It is interesting to wonder with the enviromental legislation of today, whether carbon arcs would ever be allowed to be used anymore. The carbon arc was indeed, part of the lost magic of being a projectionist.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-10-2002 11:37 PM
I ran a set of Futura IIs for the longest time (11mm pos 9mm neg). I always had great success with them. Most operators though complained of flame-outs. They were tempermental about their draft. As to the debate on Carbon vs Xenon...in terms of light, there is really no debate, carbon has a much better spectrum and is truer to "daylight". In fact, the industry is now looking to change the standard from the tried and true 5400K to something much higher (as much as 6500K since with Xenon it is really impossible to obtain a true 5400K (looking at all three colors, in order to obtain a 5400K you end up shifting the color spectrum outa whack, something has to give when you try and make a light source perform out of it's native range...kinda like a red reader on an infrared solar cell...but that is another story!). I would tend to put the Peerless Magnarc at the top of the Carbon heap as the tried and true Carbon Arc lamphouse...sure it wasn't the biggest but it sure did a nice job for it's decades of service. While it may be true that dropping a box of carbons won't cause an explosion, the damage may just as well be. It can often lead to sputtering. My favorite carbon arc oddity was running the aforementioned Futuras with 11mm UCARS....I had one of the positives that was slightly under 11mm for most of it's length. All of the sudden, it turned about once for every 10 revolutions of the postive drive! I spent the rest of the reel hand spinning that one! Steve ------------------ "Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
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Steve Kraus
Film God
Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 02-10-2002 11:59 PM
My arc lamp story also involves Futura's (can't remember if I or II). Perhaps I've already told this story.Some non-film folks re-opened a single screen 1960's theatre and had not a clue about booth work. Someone suggested they call me. I explained to them the realities of xenon, platter, and automation and took them to a house so equipped and they agreed that that was the way to go. However they were opening within a week and I put them in touch with Mark G. to round up some gear, some new, some used. In the meantime, while holding down a full time job at a post production center I ran this booth, every show for about 6 weeks until the equipment change was made. We had XL's and hour reels. One weekend a phenolic gear on the negative feed of one lamp broke. As we were running hour reels anyone else in their right mind would have simply added an intermission strip and stuck with the good machine for the few days it took to get a gear sent out. As I am not in my right mind I had a better way. Negative feed is hardly as critical as positive so the bad lamp would run satisfactorily for 5 minutes or so. So I peeled several hundred feet off the 2nd big reel, added leaders and cue marks and made a little mini reel. I'd run the 1st hour, change to the mini reel, then in just a few minutes, rethread the balance of the 2nd hour, retrim the good lamp and change back over. There was just enough time to accomplish this and I knew every word of dialog in that segment and where I needed to be in my proceedings to be on time. I never missed the change though. A couple days later I had my new gear and it was back to normal. A few weeks later the platter and xenon were put in (on the other machine) and the Futura's were retired (although the one in question stuck around as a backup for years).
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