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Topic: Subtitle framing adjusted independent of picture

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 02-19-2002 02:09 PM

Just as the topic says. Someone claimed to have seen a screening where subtitles were being cut off and the projectionist allegedly framed them higher without affecting the image itself. At first I thought no way--they don't know what they're talking about. Then again I suppose someone could be projecting picture sans titles and a 2nd film with subtitles against solid black. But who would bother when it would be cheaper to laser burn them right into the print? Then again, could it have been video projection they saw?

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 02-19-2002 02:27 PM

Could it be that new DTS subtitling thing?
http://www.dtsonline.com/cinema/dts-css.html

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 02-19-2002 04:06 PM

You're right; ti was probably video projection. Unless they had adjustable bottom masking? Doubtful, I know....

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 02-19-2002 06:55 PM

Every other week, Regal here in Eugene shows a special subtitled version of a current movie on 1 or 2 days in the middle of the week. Last week it was "Lord Of The Rings". The newspaper always runs a news blurb about it to get the word out, and the Regal display ad explicitly says "Open Captioned". Someday (yah right) I plan to attend a showing just to see what kind of subtitling they use and how well attended the shows are. Would be interesting if it's the DTS thing.

------------------
- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-19-2002 07:08 PM

I once ran some Greek Films(ancient history m,id 70's) and in the booth (e7's peerless lamps) were also 2 standard symplex with selsyns on them
We ran the film on the E7s and a black reel of subtitles Black film clear lettering on the standards in sync

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-19-2002 07:47 PM

They are probably using the TRIPOD system of etching the titles onto the film. They are not using the DTS-CSS system for these shows in Eugene. We don't have any installations in Regal Theaters yet.

Karen at DTS

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-19-2002 07:51 PM

Dave, Karen is correct. Regal often has Tripod Open Captioned films. The subtitles are right on the film. My theater currently has LOTR and last month we had Harry Potter.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 02-19-2002 08:12 PM

Well, in that case, I guess I *won't* be checking out one of those shows.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 02-20-2002 02:45 AM

A small number of so-called 'Hearing Impaired Subtitled' (HIS) prints of mainstream titles are now doing the rounds in the UK, the result of an initiative started by the British Film Institute back in the early '90s. Towards the end of my time in the cinema industry I showed a few (usually one or two afternoon shows) and they tended to do quite well. On one occasion, a special school for the deaf and hard of hearing booked 50 seats to see Chicken Run, and other smaller group bookings were becoming quite frequent. The bottom line is that these screenings need to be well-marketed in order to work.

However these were conventional, laser-titled release prints (like with most European films released in the UK, the subtitling was by LVT or Titra), not subtitling by any form of synchronised electronic projection.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-20-2002 06:22 AM

Here's a link to Tripod:

http://www.tripod.org

And the MOPIX Project of WGBH Media Access:
http://ncam.wgbh.org/mopix/

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 585-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 585-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-20-2002 12:03 PM

I know of two home brewed subtitling methods that the theatre might be using, Both are manual, not the eligant DTS system. One, which we used once was a simple dual slide projector system with the subtitles shot on slide film. An operator simply watched the film and advanced each slide as needed. Making the slides is costly, but fairly simple to execute. The producer traveled with this film so the cost was probably amortized pretty quickly. I can't see that being cost-effective for a two or three day run.

The other is the use of a computer to generate the text in a presentation program and that is then outputed to a video projector. Again, the operator must be the "synchronizer," advancing or retarding the subtitles as needed.

It would seem that getting a regular print AND a subtitled print for every booking would be an extremely expensive proposition, especially just for a few shows during the week. That sounds about as unlikey as the bottom mask moving. If it is not DTS, then I would bet it is a some jerry rigged system, maybe even with some sort of tach reader that could record where each title was placed once it was manually cued by a human. Then all additional runs could be automated.

I saw this type of thing once done with an audio track where a guy simply translated dialogue in Russian into a tape deck and then it was played back mixed over the soundtrack -- they used some sort of synchronizer that read a piece of white tape on the projector flywheel. As rube goldberg as this was, it worked reasonably well. Since I have no idea what was being said in Russian, I don't know how close the synch was, but the audiences seemed fairly content with it.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-20-2002 11:41 PM

Regal does not get subtitled prints for *every* release. Only a few major ones. But they are seperate prints with the subtitles as part of the print. No seperate subtitling system is used.

I find it very anoying to build a print that will play 4 shows and break it down 2 days later. It's proablly not cost effective at all, but Regal probablly feels it is worth the expense to accomodate the audience who requests such films. Good for them.

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Steven Gorsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Frederick, MD, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 02-21-2002 01:42 AM

Tripod doesn't get many prints to have subtitles etched on, so the print moves from theatre to theatre.

Only select films get subtitled, see the Tripod Website FAQ for details on how they decide.

Steven Gorsky

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 02-21-2002 07:44 PM

Although it's not connected to the origin of my original question quite coincidentally the Festival of Cinema for the Deaf is coming up shortly here in Chicago, featuring the DTS subtitling projection system. http://cinemaforthedeaf.org

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-22-2002 01:35 PM

Thanks Steve, yes, indeed we will be in Chicago for the festival presenting MONSTERS INC using the DTS-CSS System.

Karen at DTS

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