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Author Topic: disposing of xenons?
Brad Haven
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: fremantle, West Australia
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 03-10-2002 10:52 PM      Profile for Brad Haven   Email Brad Haven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i have about 8 used xenons stuffed in cupboards and i wish to dispose of them, my former chief suggested the old 'dropping a brick into an empty wheelie bin' (xenon inside) trick, but surely there must be better/safer methods of disposal ? .
i would appreciate any suggestions,
thanks in advance
brad

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-10-2002 11:09 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are several ways of disposing them.

I install the protectors, place the bulb with its protector in an extremely thick cardboard box slightly bigger than the bulb istelf, tape the box securely with duct tape, and toss the box containing the bulb down an unused stair case or out the booth window.

(with nobody under or near the window. Make sure the "coast is clear" before you toss them)

Do one bulb at a time, and use a different box each time.

Don't hit the box with a hammer.....the hammer could break the box, and glass fragments will fly out.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-10-2002 11:19 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I usually do what Paul does, only I use the original box that the bulb came in and I just throw them down on the booth floor about 8 or 10 feet away from me. You will hear and incredibly weak "pop" which means the bulb has exploded. If the pop sound is loud, then you changed the bulb too early. You should run each bulb no less than 9,000 hours no matter what. 2k bulbs can last even longer!

Of course I always pick up the box after tossing it down, taking much care to see if any glass shards are poking through so I don't cut my finger in half. I then rattle the box a little and listen to make sure it has exploded. Then I just toss the box in the trash along with memos and stuff like that.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-10-2002 11:33 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it is extremely important to shake the box to make sure the bulb is broken. You certainly don't want a potential hand gernade laying in the trash bin. I have used the original boxes, but some of them are quite flimsy, and as a rule, I don't use them that often.

I have tossed a few boxes on the booth floor as Joe does, but it usually scares the crap out of the dog sitting in the chair. Then I could have two messes to clean up instead of one.


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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 03-10-2002 11:50 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Put them in the trash compactor, close the door, push the button..

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 03-11-2002 01:02 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Basically I use the same method as Paul and Joe. Place the bulb in its box (preferably without the hard plastic protective cover, (if its an ORC/PerkinElmer, you can leave the flimsy worthless vinyl wrap on it))

Then take and tape the box so that it doesn't open itself and toss it up and away from you. If there is a loud POP then its broken, if no pop, carefully shake the box listening for shards. If the bulb didn't break after that (I have had a Chinese bulb once that required pitching unboxed against a wall to get it to break ) In most cases the box will take all of the blast with little to no damage (Especially the ORC/PerkinElmer boxes-Osram and Christie boxes usually have some minor damage to them after absorbing an xenon explosion)

Then simply throw the box into the trash.

-Aaron



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Jeff Skallan
Film Handler

Posts: 65
From: Littleton, CO, USA
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 03-11-2002 01:21 AM      Profile for Jeff Skallan   Email Jeff Skallan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All I can say is that I highly recommend wearing thick leather gloves while disposing of old xenons!! I would probably win the "Worst Booth Accident Award" if there ever was a contest. I once picked up a box containing an exploded 4,000 watt xenon only to discover that a piece of glass was protruding from the side of it and it went halfway through my finger. My quick and natural reaction was to let go of the thing, but it slit the entire length of my finger before it fell to the ground. I had blood gushing all over the place and it seriously looked like I'd been shot or something crazy because by the time I made it to the hospital, I had blood all over my clothes!

To make a long story short, I got to see what the inside of my finger looked like and it took 25 stitches before they had me all together again. The moral of the story: Be very careful while disposing of those damn things! They do indeed bite!

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-11-2002 02:23 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The reseller I used to buy xenons from always put an instruction sheet in the packaging stating that used lamps should be returned to them for disposal.

I never really liked that idea. One of the riskiest times in a xenon's life must surely be during shipping. OK, the polystyrene wrappers will absorb a certain amount of shock but the way some postmen chuck parcels around I'm convinced that one or two must blow up. By shipping the lamp twice, you're doubling that risk.

I suspect that the real purpose of that sheet was to cover the reseller's ass against any claims arising from someone attempting to dispose of the lamp themselves and causing an injury.

One suggestion for disposing of a xenon, though: If Brad and Joe don't manage to win the best documentary Oscar for 'Booth Training II' and want to have a go at next year's awards, a video of an exploding xenon would make an excellent training resource for chief projectionists to push home the point to trainees that xenon safety has to be taken seriously.

I don't know how you'd video it or induce the explosion, though. The only way I can think of is to replace one lamphouse panel with a pane of very thick perspex, put polarising and UV filters on the camcorder, strike the lamp, retire to a very safe distance, i.e. another room (taking care not to look into the lamp, of course), and then increase the current till it blows. Of course this would take quite some organising and the downside is that this would risk writing off some expensive gear, so I can understand if no-one is exactly enthusiastic about the idea.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-11-2002 02:40 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul doesn't like to throw the bulbs down on the booth floor because it scares the dog. Of course this raises questions:

1). Are you referring to the "dog" as a real dog or just a lazy projectionist?

2). If it is a real dog, what is it doing in the booth? Sure, Ian may have his cat sleep on the platter decks, but you're better than him, right? I mean, who isn't? Dogs != Clean.

3). If you are referring to a lazy projectionist, wouldn't half the fun be scaring the crap out of him/her? I'd throw the box as close to that projectionist as safely possible just to be amused by the reaction!

Jeff, you didn't happen to get a 3D picture of your sliced finger, did you? That must have been some cut. 25 stitches is A LOT of stitches!

Aaron, your new picture makes you look like a ghost! A happy ghost with beer. Lemme guess... flash camera?

Leo, I had an exploding xenon in Booth Training I. Two, in fact.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-11-2002 04:01 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, a video "how to dispose of a xenon bulb" has been in the works for awhile now, but I need to find a bulb manufacturer that can send me some of those dummy bulbs like were on display at ShoWest for safety reasons.

Anyone care to donate some fake bulbs?

In the meantime, Jim Ziegler's method is the safest.


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Jonathan Worthing
Master Film Handler

Posts: 384
From: Hereford, UK
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-11-2002 04:12 AM      Profile for Jonathan Worthing   Email Jonathan Worthing   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find the best way to dispose of xenon lamps is to cut a small hole in the box just enough to expose the end cap.


Insert a small steel rod. Rap the lot in a dust sheet & hit the rod with a hammer.

I have recently disposed of a lode of 4 kW using this method.

The good thing about this method is
1/ the lamp 99 out of 100 will degas with the first hit. The second hit will usually smash the glass.

2/ The safety jacket around the lamp will contain any explosion & the box & dust sheet will contain any glass dust.


3/ when the lamp has been broken you can seal the hole in the box &
dispose of it safely.

It is a bit long winded but works & is safe.

The most important thing is to be safe. IF IN DOUBT DO NOT DO IT.


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-11-2002 04:15 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What I had in mind was a full-on, no cuts continuous shot of a real lamp being struck, burning for a little while and then exploding. I'm sure the sight of it would be enough to convince anyone that xenon lamps are things which need to be treated with great respect. With any luck, the majority of projectionists will never experience an actual explosion. I didn't until almost a decade after I first worked in a booth, and during training I had to take the chief's word for it that these things could kill me if I didn't take the necessary precautions. I'm not trying to suggest that I didn't believe her, but seeing a film or a video of an actual explosion would have pushed the message home very effectively.

By the same token, the National Film and Television Archive show This Film is Dangerous, a 1940s instructional film which includes shots of 2,000 foot reels of nitrate on fire, to all newly hired archivists as part of their induction process. What I had in mind was something similar only with xenon lamps. Obviously this would not be straightforward to produce. Perhaps a lamp manufacturer could be persuaded to support such a video...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-11-2002 04:47 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well some one else can make that video. Can you imagine what the bright light would do to my camera CCD's? It'd kill 'em all. Instead, someone should set up a lens with about 400 ND filters on it INSIDE the lamphouse. The bulb would light and you'd see everything until it exploded. Unfortunately there is no way to be able to see in the lamphouse when the bulb is off or gone due to all of the ND filters. Such a video would be hard to make. Perhaps John P. Pytlak of Kodak Motion Picture Imaging can commision a really nice computer animation using all of Kodak's budget. The video could then be sent to theaters so they can see the kind of force that they are dealing with.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-11-2002 05:02 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I had that sort of money, I'd shoot it on film using very slow stock (something like IE 10) and a very high shooting speed (something like 200fps). No CCDs to nuke, and you'd also be able to see the explosion in slow motion.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-11-2002 06:21 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back to bulb disposal, the method that I've usually seen is to wrap the bulb up in many layers of newspaper and towels or something, then tape the whole thing up securely and (while wearing a facemask, gloves, etc.), whack the whole thing with a 2x4 or baseball bat or something.

The other method that seems common is just to let the used bulbs sit around in the booth forever, thus avoiding the need to dispose of them.


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