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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » DTS sync. (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: DTS sync.
Brian Tristam Williams
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-02-2002 01:13 PM      Profile for Brian Tristam Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Tristam Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi folks.

Yes, I did search for this topic, and received no joy.

My question is this: how is it possible for DTS audio to slowly drift out of sync with the picture? We are showing EP2. The distributor insists that we play it in DTS, despite the fact that our largest house also has SDDS and SRD. The technicians come and set the sync, and it's perfect. When they leave, we get complaints. I don't see any problem for quite some time, until I walk into the cinema and the sound is around 1 second out of sync. I rush up to the booth to switch to SR, and by the time I get there the sync is perfect again.

I know that if the time-code is lost for more than a few seconds, the switch back to SR is automatic, so I'm assuming it's not that.

What we have is a DTS-6D and a Dolby DA20 hooked up to a Sony 3000 SDDS unit. All the readers are on the penthouse.

Any tips on this? Even if you can just give me a decent way to trouble-shoot this? I have one idea - monitor the green LED on the reader, using a PC. Is there a way to check the status of this LED, perhaps via the 9-way D-Sub connector? I don't want to have to open the reader up and connect directly to the LED.

------------------
"One man can make a difference."

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-02-2002 02:10 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think that's possible for the sync to wander, but a slow wow-ing is possible. It is always possible you have a defective timecode board in your player, but you need to give us more info. Projector model? Platter model? What is the order of digital penthouses on top of the projector? Which penthouses do you thread through to play dts? And anything else that may make a difference.

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Brian Tristam Williams
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-02-2002 02:22 PM      Profile for Brian Tristam Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Tristam Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't think it made a difference, but we have the Christie package - AW3R platters, P35GPS, lamphouse. The DTS reader comes first in the chain, and is all that we lace up - we operate the other two readers in by-pass mode.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-02-2002 03:14 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Are your springs in the brains still intact from the factory? Remove the center brain roller (the one with flanges) and look underneath. If there is a curved metal spring in there, remove it and throw it away. You don't need it unless your platter to projector distance is greater than 15 feet and it will only cause you trouble. Odds are the bouncing is causing you grief.


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Brian Tristam Williams
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-02-2002 03:33 PM      Profile for Brian Tristam Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Tristam Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can this bounce really cause up to 1 second of lost sync?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-02-2002 04:51 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, but it is usually "wowing" and would be quite noticeable in music.


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-02-2002 05:19 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another thing to look out for on the DTS is sometimes the lip-sync rotary switches become oxidized and will have an intermittent contact. This will cause the sync to wonder about (had it happen). RXed the card...problem gone.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-02-2002 08:51 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does this happen on other prints?

--jhawk

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-03-2002 03:06 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While you are troubleshooting, flip the distributor the finger and play it in SRD. It is not his reputation that is on the line -- people are big fans of this title and having to have them sit through a mared presentation for some irrational demand by some idiot in the Fox branch office who will not be sitting in the theatre in the first place, is silly....and damaging to the theatre. Even if the suit who made this demand were to sit watching the show (what are the chances of that, especially with THAT movie which you KNOW they all saw at special company previews -- who could possibly watch it more than once, eh?!), he's not going to be able to tell if you are running DTS or SRD. And since you keep the booth door locked, it's your word against his, isn't it?!

Frank

What would they rather do, play it in SRD while you work out the DTS problem, or give back their 90% of every ticket that is given back for a refund?

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 06:59 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brian,

I agree with Steve, probably your rotary switch is full of dust and/or oxidized. Try clean it.

I had a similar problem for that.

Bye
Antonio

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-03-2002 08:17 AM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don`t understand why the distributor insists that you play dts. Maybe he read in some home audio magazine that dts was better, they always write that about dvd systems even though you can hardly hear a difference. But how can the distributor command you what format you select in your theater? If the print comes with other formats as well, why shouldn`t you be allowed to play them? BTW in German, this crap movie didn`t even have an SDDS track.
The effect you describe could also be caused when the 3 different digital formats are not set up properly and have slightly different offsets. Maybe not 1 second different, but people tend to exaggerate when they complain. Sync would wander if the processor kept switching between the formats. How is your automation and fallback cascade set up for the DFP?
Please don`t tell me it`s been setup by professional technicians, check for yourself! You should test-run the movie when there is no audience, and listen to the different tracks using a headphone connected to DFP. Use the optical track as a reference. If you have the SDDS setup and a notebook you can also configure the headphone output to play the analog center on one ear and the digital center on the other.
Do you have a very large auditorium?
Michael

> I only noticed after writing this post that you had already written that you were bypassing the other readers, so what I just wrote does not apply to your problem, but you should check anyway!


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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 12:06 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brian,

What model of DTS player do you have? And, it's serial number?

Is the whole film out of sync or some reels?

Do other films you play also have the sync drift problem? If not, it is a print problem and you should request a new print.

If other films do have the same problem, write down the OFFSET setting. Then, get a small flat bladed screwdriver and rotate each (of the two) rotarty switches two full revolutions. Once that's done, return to the OFFSET setting that you wrote down.

Sync is determined by counting the number of frames from the DTS reader's lens to the picture aperture and mutiply by 1.25. Subtract one from the result and that is your OFFSET setting. Be sure that is what is selected by the rotary switches on the player.

When threading, make the same size loops as you did when measuring the OFFSET.

Sync drift is not caused by a faulty reader or bad tension. It could be the rotary switches or the timecode board itself. Please send me an email for more information.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

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Brian Tristam Williams
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-03-2002 02:37 PM      Profile for Brian Tristam Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Tristam Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's probably not a print problem - we tested it in two other DTS houses, and it performed beautifully. The difference is that those houses have DTS-6ADs, and our largest (yes, it's a huge auditorium, with business-class seats and the largest screen in Africa, possibly larger than anything non-IMAX in Europe, I've been told) 510-seater house has a DTS-6D.

What I intend doing tonight is hooking up two processors simultaneously - DTS-6D and DTS-6AD - to the same reader, then comparing their center channels while running through the film. I've borrowed discs from another site. Results tomorrow.

By the way, is it true that the DTS disc may have a backup soundtrack? I sincerely doubt this, but this seems to be the understanding of the manager here, who spoke to the technician.

The lip sync problem has been apparent with other prints (E.T.), but it was simply 'out', then it was set 'in'. What we have confirmed now, only with Star Wars, is that it is, in fact, drifting.

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Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-03-2002 03:06 PM      Profile for Ken McFall   Email Ken McFall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a similar problem at our cinema in Aberdeen, that I service.
with three DTS 6D.

I would test the whole thing out and find no problems....
A few days later they would phone and say they had wow
and out of sync.

DTS suggested I upgrade the firmware to the latest version as this was a known problem, which I've done and no complints since.
I've also done the same at my own theatre where we have two DTS 6 units. NO problems of any kind EVER!

I can't rememebr excatly what the firmware version I upgraded to
is (possibly 1.24 from memory?). It may be worth checking that out.

The IC is normally clearly labeled with it's version number so
check it out. DTS are VERY helpful in evey way so give them a call and they will keep you right and supply the required IC's.

Regards Ken.


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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 03:08 PM      Profile for Steve Scott   Email Steve Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve and Antonio have my vote too. I've had DTS 6D units that just needed a good air dusting inside. Check to make sure the boards are all secure inside too. If that doesn't work, you might try swapping penthouse readers.

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