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Author Topic: Which sound format to use during screening
Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-11-2002 09:22 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad's Post about Road to Perdition brings up a question that I have been struggling with.

I ask my staff to screen in analog sound. The reason is because that soundtrack is the last option available sometimes and if it is bad, I would like to know right away so that the reel can be replaced rather quickly.

We will play it in digital for the regular run, but want to be sure that the analog track is good.

Usually it seems that as a print get older, it becomes harder to get a replacement reel in a timely manner, and possibly having to purchase the replacement because the defect wasn't discovered right away.

What are your thoughts?

Paul

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William T. Parr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 823
From: Cedar Park, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-11-2002 09:46 AM      Profile for William T. Parr   Email William T. Parr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Paul,


I have my staff screen the movie inthe auditorium it is opening in and in the sound format it is opening in. I do this for the same reason you have your staff screen in analog, so if there are dificincies in the soundtrack or bad picture problems we can move the print to another auditorium before the customers see or hear it.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-11-2002 09:58 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Check all the sound formats you might have to use.

I once had a showprint of The Land Girls in which the SR-D was in sync, but the analogue sound on one reel was about three seconds out. I didn't know this until the show was switched from a digital auditorium to one that had SR only at the last minute... and one reel played out of sync as a result.

A colleague once showed a print of Amistad in which the SR-D track was fine, but the SR on one reel was dubbed into German. He rehearsed the print in SR because it was going into an SR-only house, but imagine what the result would have been if the print were checked in digital only and, with a full house of customers in, the SR-D failed and the dialogue suddenly went into German!

I'd suggest switching through all the formats your theatre can play at least once during each reel to check that there's a soundtrack, that it's the right soundtrack and that it's in sync.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-11-2002 01:27 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
And this brings up the most important point of all, the need to NOT mix and match digital players within one complex. Let's say there is an all DTS complex. During the screening it will be found if the print is playable in DTS and that will never bite them in the rear down the road. The same thing goes for a complex that has all SRD or SDDS.

A well designed complex in my opinion has always been to have one (whichever, it doesn't matter) format in every auditorium, coupled with the a rollaround unit or two of the other formats for backup.

By the way, I do disagree about screening in analog. The customers do not want to hear analog. They want digital. Because of this, it is far more important to ensure that the digital tracks are good. Since Paul's theater is half equipped with SRD and the other half equipped with DTS, if I were running that complex I would move ALL print building tables over to the SRD booth and make it mandatory that all prints be screened in SRD. Finding a reel with a defective dts track is very, very rare so it only makes sense to check the SRD track. In fact, it has always been routine for me to run the screening WITHOUT analog backup. That makes any defect VERY obvious to whoever is screening the print. If the SRD track plays properly on the pre-screening, then the track will always play back properly, provided the films are taken care of.


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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-11-2002 03:28 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd run it in whatever format the feature is supposed to play in for its first public show, preferably in the same house where it will play on opening day. This is a good time to catch flaky digital tracks and/or misaligned readers before subjecting the movingoing public to digital dropout hell. Also, it's pretty easy to tell if there is anything horribly wrong with the optical track when inspecting a print on the bench, but it is usually impossible to identify digital tracks that will refuse to play without actually playing them.

When films aren't pre-screened by theatre staff, it's always good to check the sound for the first show, preferably right around every reel change, in attempt to ensure that the track is good and the digital track (if present) isn't faulting. In single-screen houses, I always leave the booth monitor on (at least at a low level) as a way to check for sound problems.

Having said this, I don't normally pre-screen prints unless either a) I'm personally interested in the movie or b) other theatre employees want to watch it (in which case, if I'm not personally interested, I start the film for them and go home). I tend to think that the value of a pre-screening is overrated, especially for once-only shows. It's also sometimes impossible when prints arrive at the last minute on Friday morning.

I agree with Brad about the benefits of having the same digital format available on as many screens as possible at a multiplex. If I were equipping a multiplex, I'd probably put in all SRD and maybe have a few DTS units available as well.


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Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-11-2002 04:17 PM      Profile for Jason Black   Author's Homepage   Email Jason Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,
At the risk of soudning very stupid, how do you screen in SR-D without teh analog backup? I can't readily think of a method of doing this with our Christie packages and CP500's.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-11-2002 05:08 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I always make it a point whenever possible to set up the analog led on it's own kill switch for precisely this purpose. However on a generic installation, you will probably need to have your tech come in and add a switch.

Do you have basement readers or a penthouse reader?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-11-2002 07:33 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just put piece of artists tape over the analog reader camera. And fasten it so that it will NOT come off and rub against the film and also so it is NOT touching the lens (even though artists tape does not leave residue, better to keep it off of the glass anyway). But turning off the LED is by far a better method. Also be bareful not to mess up the A-Chain settings of the lens when applying and removing the tape. You don't wanna rotate the lens or accidentally adjust the azimuth trying to get that tape on there perfectly (some readers are incredibly fickle)! If all else fails just break off the analog reader camera from the projector.


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Steve Kraus
Film God

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 07-11-2002 11:52 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't speak as to the other processors but on the CP500D if there is no motor run signal present (see the discussion in the other thread about motor start relays for digital C/O booths) then digital will not drop to analog. If there's a problem you get to hear weird buzzes and ticks or simply silence. I have alternate motor switches that don't activate the motor run relays which can serve to force it to stay in digital.

For single projector platter operation you probably have a plug on that connector with a single jumper that is telling the CP that motor #1 is always running. Cutting that and putting a switch on the soundrack somewhere may be a more elegant solution than a switch on the LED P/S or taping the LED itself.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 07-12-2002 10:58 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Having said this, I don't normally pre-screen prints unless either a) I'm personally interested in the movie or b) other theatre employees want to watch it (in which case, if I'm not personally interested, I start the film for them and go home). I tend to think that the value of a pre-screening is overrated, especially for once-only shows. It's also sometimes impossible when prints arrive at the last minute on Friday morning."

You mean you get you prints sent to you in advance? You don't just get handed the print by a visiting guest, who brings the print with them, and it has to be on screen in about five minutes, as soon as they have made a short introductory speech to the audience. Quite often when this happens, there's not even time to check the cues on the first reel, you just have to hope for the best. Sometimes there's not even time to get the first part onto a spool, so you have to run it from a split. I don't like running any film without inspecting it first, and I don't like running from a two inch core, but sometimes, in this situation, you have to do it with the first reel.


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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 01-01-2004 06:21 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have now the same problem, since I have all 11 DD screens with just one DTS player. I agree with Brad that it is unusual to found a defective DTS track.
I have a suggestion to know if the track is defective without babysitting the entire feature: program a format button on you CP with a Format 11 (User 1 or 2 on CP650 or any SK on CP500). When DTS kicks in, it selects SK5 on CP500 and Format 11 (SK5!) on CP650. Change immediately to the other button you configured for Format 11. At the end of the feature check the CP. If the button selected is the same as you leave the DTS didn't drop to analog/dd otherwise it reverted during your absence!

What do you think?

My main disappointment screening the copy using DD when you know that DTS will be used is for the fader setting. Perhaps, despite the systems are well calibrated, DTS may require a little correction in fader (0.2, 0.3?) perhaps not...

Bye
A

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-01-2004 06:51 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Do you have SRD on every screen, but one of them also has a dts???

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 01-01-2004 06:58 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, It is a movable unit, I will configure three or five screen for it.
Why?

Bye
A

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 01-01-2004 07:22 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Brad has the right idea, even though my place doesn't totally agree with his viewpoint. It does make sense that, if you take the time to screen your print in one auditorium, that print should be playable in all the others, IF you have the same format in all screens.

My initial thought, when the equipment became available at my place, was that if I got a print without DTS, I could still play it in digital on at least one screen, if other factors allowed (remembering the "who choosed the auditorium" discussion). But I think Brad's comments make sense. At least I'm 75% compliant! [Big Grin]

As for screening in analog; I never do it intentionally. Since I don't always have DTS audio on certain trailers, my analog side gets a certain amount of default usage (I also check it regularly). But... I have a substantial investment in the digital part of my racks, so I do my screenings in the format that's going to be used on the bulk of my presentations.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-01-2004 08:05 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If you have SRD in every auditorium, there is no need whatsoever to screw with the dts unit. You are only asking for problems switching between formats. Be happy that you have a common digital format on every screen. It doesn't really matter what format it is, just so that ALL screens are the same.

At this point your dts unit is a backup. Leave it turned off and only use it if you get a print with a bad reel that won't play in SRD.

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