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Topic: A Newbie's Question on Equipment

Matthew Sonnenshein
Film Handler

Posts: 11
From: Sparkill, NY, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 08-02-2002 01:52 AM

Recently, I was offered a working Kodak Pagaent 250E projector for around one hundred dollars. I just have started to become interested in projection and I was wondering if the machine is worth learning on. If anyone knows anything please don't be afraid to post.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 08-02-2002 03:09 AM

Hi Matthew.

I buy Kodak 250's at auction for around $10 at the most. It is a good version of the famous Kodak Pageant design. The only way that I might buy one for $100 is if it was in MINT condition. eBay does not count.

It is a great machine to learn on. They are easy on film. Very difficult to work on, though. You could do alot worse with other 16mm brands...

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-02-2002 07:53 AM

I'll second Bruce's remarks, and also add that if you get serious you may want different focal length lenses than the 2" that comes with the machine, and you may want a scope lens. They're tough to find for the Pageants. Ask ten guys and they'll give you ten different answers as to which projector to select, but just be aware that among the 16's you'll see the Eiki slots are about the most common, and they're still in production. Lenses and parts are far easier to find than for the Kodaks. Having said that, the Pageants are/were fine machines.

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-02-2002 08:08 AM

Hello, Bruce,

The comments about the Kodak Pageant being hard to work on... I wonder what you found hard about them?

My first job in media was with a large AV service company. We were dealers for Ampro equipment and later also Bell & Howell. I serviced about 1,200 machines a year. Of these, the Bell & Howells were more difficult to access. They also left a teltale scratch between the soundtrack and the image on every film they ran. The Ampros had a unique film shuttle mechanism which had to be lapped into fit. They ran forever and were very easy on film.

My second job, as media director for a school system (29 years) included maintenance of the entire school district media equipment. They had 60 RCA projectors, an RCA film chain in my TV studio and 30 Kodak Pageant projectors which were built into large cases with the machine inside and, using a first surface mirror, projected on a plastic RP screen. These were made by the Bush Film and Equipment Co. of Saginaw, MI.. They were meant for showing films in "undarkened" classrooms. The film advance claws and cams were marvels of ingenuity, as the cam wore, the framing slowly shifted. Replacing the cam and claw was a 2 minute job and you knew when to do it as you couldn't make the image come into perfect frame.

Jeff,

We had Eiki machines in the Intermediate School District media service. As a factory certified tech for that product, I was impressed with the film advance mechanism. The entire mechanism "Cam Tank" could be removed and cleaned and lubricated then returned to the machine. We kept a couple of "tanks" on the shelf for quick turn around. Couldn't say there were any problems which were common to many machines. Usually the equipment was in need of cleaning or disaster control from the fact that they were not TEACHER PROOF!

KEN

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-02-2002 08:17 AM

Ken: Totally off topic, but didn't you love all those open ball bearings on the 100-300 series Bell & Howell's! What a nightmare to service, they took a real steady hand to place in position. Personally, I found the RCA 400's the easiest of the older machines to maintain--simple and wide open.

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-02-2002 08:25 AM

Jeff,

I still have the jeweler's loupe and found that "Lubriplate" was a great asset in replacing the B&H bearings. It was a great lubricant and it helped to 'stick' the balls into place!
KEN

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-02-2002 09:43 AM

Matthew,
Do not pay $100, but keep looking. Check at library sales or surplus shops, especially those affiliated with large Universities. I would bet that you can find a pageant in the $5-$20 range. It may not be the greatest 16mm projector, but I think it's one of the best to learn on and fun to run. Since it threads manually, you get a sense of why a projector is engineered the way it is. They were also one of the most popular projectors in schools, and that is why you can find them so cheap.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-02-2002 01:45 PM

Don't pay more than 10 bucks for a 16mm projector!! There are tens of thousands of them on the used market. Also, stay way away from any Lubriplate type grease. Comparedt o whats available today, its pure crap and will only dry out and cake up. I rate it right up there with WD40. Only use a synthetic based lubricant such as Superlube and you'll never have problems with things from gunky dried up grease. Check it out at .....http://www.super-lube.com/
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-02-2002 02:51 PM

I always liked working on the Fumeo 16mm machines
The Favorite 16B (ziess/prevost) is a difficult machine to work on though

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-02-2002 07:13 PM

Gordon,

Our Favorit 16B is a lot like a "housebroken Simplex XL" The framing device is terrible as it moved the aperture and the machine has to be re-leveled.

Mark,

Be kind to an old tech. That Lubriplate was the greatest in 1950. A couple of those machines are still running in the local library.

KEN

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-02-2002 07:55 PM

The favorite framing is the same as is found on certain versions of the Hortson as well
Also some of the hortsons also shifted the lens up and down
There is one model of the elmo machines that also moves the apperture so it was not all that uncommon method
I gues it was just a cruder form of the old motiograph 35mm method of racking the mechanism up and down in repect to the trap and lens

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