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Author Topic: Loop Flash?
Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-05-2002 11:20 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lately I heard of a phenomenon known as loop flash. It is supposively noticeable only at close range to the screen and studio people are bitching about it. I have also heard Kinotone projectors dont have this problem, but others do. Anyone know more about this?

Josh

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P.S. It can be solved by moving the picture aperture to a higher position in the gate, farther from the lower loop.
------------------
"Film is made of silver, video is made of rust"
'nuf said


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-07-2002 12:09 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It might help if you described the phenomenon...somebody may have encountered it and called it by some other name.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 12:21 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I personally havent seen this phenomenon, But I have heard it is noticeable on at least simplex machines when running RP40 and when sitting at a close range to the screen. Studio people are the only ones who seem to be complaining about it. Because Kinotone machines have the aperature placed higher in the gate, they do not suffer from this.

Thats all I know.

Josh

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-07-2002 02:05 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been AT the screen while running RP40 on a Simplex and a Christie, and I don't recall any onscreen differences between the two. Unfortunately for me I have never even seen a Kinoton in operation. Regardless I didn't see anything to bitch about as I was standing at the screen with the RP40 running, and I am quite the anal retentive ass when it comes to projection.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 03:30 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if Josh might be referring to a "rubber screen". That's when there is image flutter near the center of the screen.

I think I am using the correct term in describing this... If memory serves me correctly, I picked up that term from the Kodak's "Reel People" publication a long time ago.

I have seen this occur in straight gate machines on occassion. There are multiple causes of this problem.

However, I have not seen that happen in a curved gate machine.


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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 08-07-2002 11:48 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, Occasionally it looks like bright objects in the center of the screen, like text, seem to be shifting left/right/left/right slightly with each alternating frame. Yet the rest of the image seems steady. Is that "rubber screen"?

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 12:20 PM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi; "Loop Flash" is a new term to me. Love to know more about it...

Pat

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 08-07-2002 12:57 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are you running regular release prints or work prints???

What type of splices??

Because if you are running work prints, you will have different
types of splices to deal with. (inviso , 8 perf single sided splices
...)

I have a pair of Magna-Tech PR-135 projectors, which are the
studio version of the Kinoton FP20 projectors.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

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From: Plano, TX
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 - posted 08-07-2002 02:08 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pat,

One of your simplex guys mentioned it, I think his name was Jerry Bigalo(sp?). Anyway, he said the studio guys complain about it once in a while.

Josh

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 08:21 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, I think it was some kind of flutter. Maybe John, the "Human Link" will chime in and cite the definition of a rubber screen. I no longer have the Reel People Magazine published by Kodak.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 09:23 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Focus Flutter" is a heat-related effect:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/fall97.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/winter97.shtml

Be sure your lamp is aligned properly, with no hot spotting, and that you are using efficient heat filtration. Adjusting gate tension can sometimes help. High film moisture levels (freshly processed prints, high humidity) can aggravate the flutter as the radiant heat of the lamp drives out moisture, causing a rapid change in curl.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 10:59 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
its not focus flutter, its something else.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 11:47 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, how does Kodak's "Reel People" publication define "rubber screen"? I don't have a copy of that publication any more.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 05:50 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul: I don't recall that Kodak ever defined "rubber screen", except perhaps as a slang term for focus flutter. Can you recall the approximate date of the issue you saw it in?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-09-2002 03:50 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, I am sure it was a slang. Maybe that's what it was referring to. Thank you for looking it up. I think that issue goes back to the mid 80's, maybe even earlier. It was a very popular magazine many theatres ordered specifically for a projection booth reference. It was about 3/8 of an inch thick.

David, I don't know what it is called. I wonder if Josh might have been referring to what you described.

Paul


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