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Author Topic: Bare aluminum wire
Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 02:10 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Does anyone know where to get this stuff? i need about 25 feet of 10 awg for an antenna project.

Josh

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 02:19 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some links:
http://www.jchwire.com/jchwire/Contents2.htm
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=11&category=112
http://www.erico.com/erico_public/pdf/fep/strike/S256C2_1.pdf

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 03:23 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a stupid question:

Why aluminum? What's wrong with copper?

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 03:31 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
it's a J-pole antenna. Because it radiates omnidirectionally, the supports cant be metal, only wood. copper would also corrode and foul up the tuning slider in the rain and is heavier than aluminum.

Josh

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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 08-07-2002 04:09 PM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Josh, If your J-pole is for the 120 MHz or higher make it from 1/2 in copper water pipe and elbows. Cut pieces to length and solder together. Many many of these have been made for the 2 m amateur band.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 08:18 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 11:02 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its for the FM band. I want to do some low power FM experiments and the design I have exhibits 8.8 db of gain! Havent had much luck yet, all the places in town stock service entrance cable, but it is stranded and also insulated.

Josh

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 12:30 AM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
At those frequencies you may be better off with aluminium tubing rather than 10 AWG solid wire due to "skin effect". The tubing may also be easier to "assemble" especially if in some sort of co-linear radiator/array.

FYI...aluminium oxidizes much more and much faster than copper, especially if in contact with dissimilar metals and/or in a damp environment.

I've used 3/8" rigid copper tubing with a copper ground-rod strap type clamp for slide-tuning on 2 meters before.

Keep in mind wood makes a great conductor when wet.

You may be able to find 10 AWG solid wire sold locally for use as lightning-rod ground wire, clothes line, or perhaps "guy" wire.

>>> Phil


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 01:14 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I talked with Josh, and he referred me to a website about the design of what he wants to build. Now I see why he needs AWG 10 aluminum wire. I'll try to get some for him, as nobody in his are stocks that stuff.

Phil, I knew I saw that type of wire recently, but I could not remember where. Yes, it was also used as clothes lines. Then, another light bulb lit. We were also using it as grounding wire for the satellite dish support frames at the radio station. I agree with you on the corrosion factor. But it is light weight, so that might be the advantage.

Josh, check out the hardware stores. Also, get ahold of Lance - he might have some of that stuff laying around if he used it for the same purpose as we did.

We might be able to get it from broadcast suppliers, too.

**********************************************************************
Just as general information, aluminum wire has a "memory" - that is, when you bend it, over a period of time it will have a tendency to return to its orginal shape. I understand that is one of the chief causes of electrical fires in the older homes (especially mobile) that used aluminum wire in electrical applications. It has the tendency to pull itself away from the connectors in the push-in devices such as switches and recepticals used today. For those who live in these types of dwellings, it would probably be a very good idea to use the screw terminals when you change them out. I believe aluminum wiring in homes (mobile or stick-houses) was outlawed around 1970. (or at least in that time frame)

While you are at it, check your aluminum wire terminations in your power panels for tightness and signs of overheating at least once a year. Also, remember that when you secure an aluminum wire to a copper device in electrical applications, a special chemical is needed to prevent oxidation caused by the "Battery Effect." The green slimy stuff you see around and in the service wire connections of the power panel is that compound I am addressing. DO NOT clean it from the terminals. That stuff didn't grow in there, and it didn't come from Mars.

However, if it looks like corrosion, it probably is. Be careful how you determine what it is. De-Ox feels like grease.

Corrosion feels and looks like corrosion. If it is corrosion, immediate action to correct it is required.

Failure to use this compound could result in a very dangerous situation for you and your family.

This compound can be obtained from hardware stores. One of the brand names is De-Ox. It is dark green in color. Most electrical contractors I personally know use that specific brand.

Remember....aluminum wire for service entrance is still being used today. It is in your main feeds coming into your home or business. Once again, I say check those connections (or at least have them checked by your electrician) in your power panels at least once a year. I do. I headed off a potential electrical fire in one of our theatres by checking that once a year.

When it comes to electrical safety, there can be NO compromise.

OK, I babbled enough on this subject. You do as you wish.
**********************************************************************

Paul


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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 06:09 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Josh, the stuff you're looking for is available from Antique Electronic Supply (http://www.tubesandmore.com) as Aluminum Bus Bar wire. It was used in battery radios from the 1920s as the main wiring component in the chassis. I have a roll of it laying around somwhere and I'll send it to you if you like. Just e-mail the address.

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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 08-08-2002 10:00 AM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul;

That safety information on aluminum power wire installations you posted is valuable. I didn't know of the existence of De-Ox compounds.

Aluminum power wire is not permitted in the five counties of New York City. Nor is Romex. Power installations require a minimum of flexible metal shielded wire (BX cable), or where exposed, as in basements, tubular shielding.

Gerard


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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 08-08-2002 10:24 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Radio Shack # 15-035 (40 feet) for only $4.99


It also can be used if you lock yourself out of the car.


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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 10:58 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, Ken, what gauge is it?

Josh

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 11:40 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's #10AWG aluminum....and now that I'm looking at it, I remember where it came from. It's the grounding wire supplied with my DSS satellite dish. Ken's right...it's available at Radio Shack. I think it comes in 50-ft lengths. I hope you'll post a picture of your antenna creation when it's done. With that kind of gain, it must be a co-phased array of some sort.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 03:26 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is a link to the proposed antenna. There are two picture at the bottom showing it after it was hoisted into the air.

Josh


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