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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: IB or Dye Transfer prints?
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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!
Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999
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posted 08-09-2002 03:36 AM
Tim:I think you are confusing 'IB Tech/Dye Transfer' with 'Cyan Dye' soundtracks. IB prints use standard silver soundtracks and the tracks will be gray (even the SDDS track if the print has one-thats a dead giveaway of an IB print) I have not heard anything of the existence of ANY IB prints of 'Reign Of Fire'... Likely the cans were mislabeled. Was your print a low number (below #100 in most cases) and with a green TES label? (another indicator that will assist in finding the answer) FWIW, all of the 'Reign Of Fire' prints I have handled were standard Eastman prints, NOT IB.
-Aaron
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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-09-2002 07:48 AM
Sad to say, Technicolor is currently claiming the Universal City dye transfer line is "down for retooling" and giving no information as to when it will be up and running again. Despite all the interest from people who appreciate this superior color process, Technicolor has done little to promote widespread use of the revived dye transfer process, and some insiders are now saying that they are trying to quietly bury it again. Even those titles which have seen some dye transfer printing have generally been primarily released in Eastman or equivalent prints with only a few dye transfer prints, which totally defeats the economics of the process depending on larger print runs to offset the cost of the matrices and set up time. Remember, Thomsen who owns Technicolor is primarily in the consumer electronics business, and undoubtedly has a good deal more interest in their extensive VHS and DVD production facilities than in film printing in general. For those not familiar with it, however, you WILL notice a real difference between a dye transfer print and an Eastman print, and the track definitely will be grey, not black.
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-09-2002 08:12 AM
The "receiver" used for Technicolor dye transfer prints is effectively a special silver-image black-and-white print film. The soundtrack negative (containing analog, DTS, Dolby Digital, and SDDS tracks) is printed onto the film, which is then processed in a B&W developer. The processed film then is brought into contact sequentially with the three dye-carrying matrices (yellow, cyan, magenta). So currently, ALL the soundtracks on a dye-transfer print will be (gray) silver image only.Here are the recent patents for the technology: PAT. NO. Title
1 6,327,027 Dye transfer apparatus and method for processing color motion picture film
2 6,094,257 Dye transfer apparatus and method for processing color motion picture film
3 6,002,470 Dye transfer apparatus and method for processing color motion picture film Here is a link to the US Patent Office search site:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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John Schulien
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 206
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-09-2002 03:28 PM
Richard Haines, in his book, goes into a discussion about the friction that developed between Technicolor and Kodak in the later years of dye transfer production. According to the author, there was a falling out between the two companies, largely over the following factors:1) Technicolor's reliance on Kodak for matrix film and release stock
2) Kodak's desire to promote the use of dye coupler film technology
3) A change in the relationship between Technicolor and Kodak from an attitude of cooperation to an attitude of competition after the retirement of Technicolor founder Herbert Kalmus. According to Haines, the result of this friction was that the cost of matrix filmstock was raised to the point where dye transfer became uneconomical and was discontinued. I am willing to accept that this is one side of the story, but I've never heard another side. So I'll just go ahead and ask the touchy, sensitive, corporate political questions out loud, hopefully without raising offense: Given that Kodak is apparently the sole supplier of matrix and dye receiver stock, 1) Is Kodak currently amenable to the revival of dye transfer as a general release printing technology, even if it results in the partial displacement of dye coupler release filmstock production in favor of dye receiver release filmstock production? 2) Is there some aspect of the relationship between Kodak and Technicolor that has resulted in the situation where dye transfer prints are only produced in uneconomically low numbers, shipped out randomly, and never advertised to the public?
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-09-2002 03:32 PM
Sorry, but I cannot comment on contracts and negotiations with Kodak customers, some of which are covered by confidential disclosure agreements, and most of which I am not even privy to.The information about the technology that I've shared was already in the public domain. ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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