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Topic: Kelmar Print Cleaner - Help

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-31-2002 06:39 PM

I just got a used Kelmar web media print cleaner so I can FINALLY use FilmGuard.

But...The little rubber thingies on the take-up side make it a too-tight fit for the cardboard take-up rollers.

Are they supposed to be so tight? I have to use needle-nose pliers in order to get the cardboard rollers off.

My guess is that this thing was stored with the rubber pieces locked all the way down by the retaining screw for too long and now they are permanently swollen. Does that make sense?

What is the replacement part number for the rubber bits? I don't have a diagram.

[Edited: I found the parts diagram in the "Manuals" section]

~Manny.

"Do I have any openings that this man might fit?"
--Madeline Kahn in History of the World: Part One

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Bob Brown
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 09-01-2002 12:24 AM

Manny: I had the same problem, all I did was to wind the media onto one the keyed plastic cores that Brad sends out with the FilmGuard. The cardboard cores should fit just fine on the supply side of the cleaner to allow a good clean wind, I have also cut some key slots into the cardboard cores that I leave on the supply spindle to add in the rewind after use. But I always use the keyed plastic cores on the take up spindle

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 09-01-2002 01:48 AM

I never remove the cores from the take up side. I just use 'em over and over. I do recommend putting the Film-Tech black plastic cores on the take up side with the keyed part down. They won't grip as tight as the cardboard cores but they won't fly off either.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 09-01-2002 03:47 AM

The latest version of the FilmGuard instructions explains the 3 different sizes of cores.

Neumade...too small inner diameter (cardboard)
Kelmar...standard size, but only works well as a takeup core if your rubber inserts are new (cardboard)
Film-Tech...just a tad bit larger inner diameter than the Kelmar, but won't grab brand new inserts (plastic)

Basically, try using the plastic Film-Tech cores on your takeup shafts first. With the thumbscrews tightened down (only finger tight), if the cores cannot spin that is the core you should be using. If the cores can still rotate on the shaft, use a cardboard core (Kelmar preferred). If you end up having to use the Kelmar cores, bear in mind that after a few months the rubber will start to "fatten" as it is used. Once you notice backtension from the cardboard cores during rewinding of the media, you should try and see if the plastic cores will grab on the takeup shafts. It is almost impossible to get a nice rewind of the media if the takeup core cannot free-spin during the rewinding process.

In any instance, never EVER remove the takeup cores from the machine just to change out media. Just loosen the takeup thumbscrews a couple of revolutions and pull the media off. I see more parts lost when people use the mind-set that they have to completely remove those takeup cores to change out media.

By the way Manny, odds are if you just use the plastic cores for takeup, you'll still have months worth of life left on those rubber inserts.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 09-01-2002 10:05 AM

All right...I understand everything you're saying and I appreciate the helpful hints...but I thought that the plastic inserts were supposed to be used for the SUPPLY roll of the web media. No?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 09-01-2002 11:45 AM

Yeah, that too. Technology has advanced to a point where you can use the plastic cores to supply AND take up... at the same time!

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 09-01-2002 02:17 PM

Joe, Joe, JOE! Why are you this way???

I'm commenting on the fact that there are only three of the plastic rollers in this box. Two of them are for supply and the third is for rewinding. I guess I'll have to order another kit of FilmGuard.

~Manny (as seen on TV).

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 09-01-2002 02:30 PM

The reason there are only 3 cores in the kit is because it is assumed that people buying FilmGuard already have a functioning cleaner and do not need extra cores for "parts". With the Film-Tech media coming pre-wound onto the coupling cores, there really is only a need to include one core (for rewinding), but not everyone may be getting that brand of media so we have continued to drop 3 in each kit. The cores aren't cheap, which is why we don't go throwing in a handful.

As you use FilmGuard (and moreso if you use the FT media) you will end up amassing a small army of those cores.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 09-01-2002 09:39 PM

quote:
Joe, Joe, JOE! Why are you this way??

Just 'cause.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-18-2003 05:21 AM

so i've been dealing with this issue lately. the media we're using come out of an unlabeled box so i don't know what brand they are. the cores sit very tight on the takeup shafts and are a bear to rewind. i guess i'll try and convince someone to order f-t media for the extra coupling cores.

but in the meantime, as per the above posts, it seems i should just be reusing the cores when changing media. my problem with this is that the damn things are all wet with filmguard at that point and the tape won't hold. i'm using magic tape (scotch i think), and even when media and core are dry it just doesn't want to stick. i have to make sure i leave a layer or 2 of media wound around the takeup core when rewinding to hold it down. is there a superior brand of tape? should i use lots and lots of it?

are the takeup cores even supposed to get wet with normal usage? i think my saturating technique might need some work. if i hold the spray bottle more or less upright i can only spray the media on one side of the roll. so that side gets dripping wet while the opposite side is dry. if i then rotate the media a little to get at the other side, i end up with slack in the outer layer, and i fear the FG is just kinda rolling off like duck's back onto the floor, instead of penetrating into the roll. and then there's the short length of media going to the idler roller before starting. it seems like that portion should be saturated as well, since the start of the show will be running over it, so i give it a squeeze there, too. i tend to end up with FG all over the kelmar unit and a puddle on the floor, not a drop or two like in the directions. am i just being klutzy?

carl

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 05-18-2003 10:34 AM

Carl, it sounds like you are using Filcro or Neumade media, as they come in the plain brown boxes. Bleh.

To soak the media pads, try the following technique:

Mount the cleaner to the platter bracket so that the cleaner is upside down OR put the cleaner upside down on the edge of a table or desk (don't let it fall off). Remove the plastic black caps from the supply side of the media. With the media completely wound up on the supply side, take the FG bottle and aim it almost (but not quite) straight down on top of the media roll. Begin squirting. Keep squirting until you see a drop or two drip off of the bottom. You may need to move the sprayer bottle laterally left and right after this for a couple of quick sprays to make sure the edges get enough FG. Do this to both media pads. Put the cap back on. You may have a few drops on the cleaner and a couple on the floor as well, but it will provide much entertainment when someone slips on it later.

You shouldn't be getting much FG on the take up core, no.

Brad, we should do a quick video of the proper way to apply FG. I will narrate and add the special effects and 5.1 sound.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-18-2003 10:53 AM

The little rubber tubes on my cleaner had gotten the bulges too so I replaced them. All they are is what looks like pieces of rubber hose from the auto parts store. I suspect that if you were to take your cleaner there, you could find a rubber hose that is just the right id/od. A few cuts with a sheet rock knife and you've got replacements.

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-18-2003 11:32 AM

I usually apply the FG on the pads before I even load them on to the cleaner. It's just easier for me to apply it that way than to meander the sprayer around the various shafts and rollers on the cleaner. I usually give the pads a shot in each direction: Top, bottom, edges, all over... until it's sufficiently "soaked." then I load them up.

I usually unwind about 5" or so of the pads before I appy FG to them. This ensures the ends will be dry for taping them to the takeup shafts. Then I advace to where the FG begins. Never had a problem once I got the hang of it! [Smile]

=TMP=

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-18-2003 11:34 AM

Greg,

The "rubber" hose is not as it seems...the ID/OD is not as easy to match up as you would think and I have yet to find it at the auto-parts store.

We have found an equivalent that is slightly larger in ID/OD that fits the Film-Tech cores better if one cuts to the proper length.

Steve

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-18-2003 12:03 PM

Perhaps so, I never did actually try to find the hose. Maybe a hunk of hose that was not quite perfect in id/od but slightly longer would give enough bulge to cause the necessary friction to turn the plastic cores, since the ends of the cores are supported by the metal squisher pieces. The replacements I got still had a tell tale curve to them suspiciously like rubberhose from the car parts store. They seem to work just fine, but I do have to turn the thumbscrews in all the way

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