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Author Topic: Acceptable aud light during intermission
John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 09-28-2002 02:55 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What are the specifications for lighting in a public building? I'm looking for legally defined numbers and definitions that would hold up in court if necessary. What type of meter/equipment would be used to measure the lighing?

Like many theaters, we are using slide projectors to show ads during intermissions. We use projectors with 250watt bulbs.

Over the past few years, we have been repeatedly asked to turn down the house lights so the ads can be seen easier. We do ... then a patron trips, complains they can't see, and the lights get put up again.

The real problem is, of course, the projector lamp is too small. I keep trying to explain: if we use a 3000 watt lamp to light a screen for a movie, why would anyone think something 12 times smaller would look just as good?

Since the ad company is not going to buy better projectors, this cycle could go on for a long time.


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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-28-2002 06:54 AM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello, John,

The fire code of your area will specify the amount of light required for safety in your 'enclosed area' situation. Most architechtural firms have a 'code compliance' expert on staff or available to them. This is a great place to start looking for information. Asking the local fire inspector, generally, is not a good idea as it sends a message of insecurity which the inspector will feel compelled to correct.

The lighting you should have in place for walking during a performance should be adequate during the slide show with only minimal additional 'house light'. The code will require some level of lighting so that the audience can find and safely use the exits without house lights and without light reflected from the image on the screen. These lights may be "EXIT" panels over the doors and walk lights on the aisles. Either runway lights or lamps in the end caps of the chairs should be present to make exiting safe in an emergency.

With regard to the 'brightness' of the slide projector image, the size of the film image is larger than that in the motion picture projector. Almost 3 times more area than the image size of the 1:85 projector mask. The lens of the motion picture projector is very "fast" having an F 1.9 or so light passing capability. Some slide projectors for home use have F 3.5 lenses. Check the F of the lens in your slide projector. You can get more powerful lamps for the slide projector. At the Temple Theatre we have a Xenon slide projector with an ORC 500 lamp. This machine with an F1.2 lens produces a credible image of 23' height in the auditorium lighted for moving pictures.

Another issue is the amount of 'house light' which is being directed toward the screen. Careful control of the spill from ceiling fixtures can minimize the 'wash out' of images on the screen. This control of spilling light is also helpful in assisting the audience to leave during the credits. Especially during credits with outtakes, some of the audience will stay while the others will bolt for the doors making this a particularly dangerous situation for the audience and could foster complaints from those who wish to enjoy the outtakes.

KEN


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 09-28-2002 08:00 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would be nice if the ad companies would purchase Xenon or HMI slide projectors....but as a cost issue don't hold your breath. We recently sold 75 kodak units to a customer after experimenting with the Telex HMI unit......which after operational/purchase considerations, would have taken years to justify the cost.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 09-28-2002 08:27 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many ABC cinemas years ago used to have hooligan lights concentrated on the cheap seats in the front stalls area. These were 2 simple downlighters in a tube that you could not see if you looked up to the ceiling from the middle to back stalls or circle, or were they distracting during the feature! Perhaps you could try something similar to illuminate the gangways with little spill in the seating area, and used only during your slide advertisements and feature end credits.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-28-2002 06:38 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In Ontario the building code specifies 8foot candles

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-28-2002 09:12 PM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

Thanks for the readout on the Canadian code. Could you tell me all of what the code says about that light level? I think there is something in there about where the level is measured, like at the floor or 4 feet above the floor and is that the absolute minimum or is that the average reading?

If you wanted to use lights in the end stands of the chairs, could they be as here in the US? We can have an average of 4 foot candles of light at the floor level in aisles and walkways. That means a 15 watt frosted lamp located 21 inches above the floor and spaced at 8 foot intervals from opposing sides of the aisle. These are often called 'walk lights' as well as aisle lights.

KEN

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 09-28-2002 09:54 PM      Profile for Robert E. Allen   Email Robert E. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The best thing to do is eliminate the ads or restrict them to lobby equipment. The only reason a theatre is running ads is to recover lost ticket or concession revenue caused by excessive prices and lousy films (not to mention poor screen performances and discourteous staff). However, it doesn't seem to have dawned on the corporate brass that they need to book better product (yes, it's out there but you have to work to get it) and stop the skyrocketing admission and concession prices. Duh! The only ads that should be run on a theatre screen are coming attractions and those are run after the lights go down.

Bob
The Old Showman

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-29-2002 01:22 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is measured at floor (or ubstruction )level

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-29-2002 09:07 PM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

Thanks for the data. It appears that the isles in Canada must be brighter than here in the USA. At least in Michigan.

KEN

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-30-2002 01:28 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Eight foot candles? How many of them are needed and where do you put them so as not to cause an obstruction?

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-30-2002 01:31 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John:

During intermissions and between shows, we run the house lights at walk-in level. I think that is very close to what Gordon said. About 8 foot-candles. It is a comfortable level, not too dim and not too bright.

The LED projectors we use for ads provide enough foot-lamberts on the screen where our customers don't complain about the auditorium being "too dark."

There are some advertizing firms that will install and maintain the projectors and will pay a pre-determined percentage of what they charge the clients to post the ads on your screen. It may not be much, but it is something.

If you find a company that will do that for you, it is best that you have a technician on site so those technicians from the the advertizing company do not screw up you sound racks or sound systems with their audio interface.

Most of those I have seen will admit they don't know Shit from Shinola when it comes to the high-tech theatre sound systems, and will welcome the assistance and directions from the theatre technicians.

Of course, you will find a couple who "know it all." I tangled buttholes with one like that, and I kicked him out of the booth. His boss dropped in to finish the installation and to un-screw what his technican screwed up. When he was done, he apologized like there was no tomorrow.


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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 09-30-2002 10:00 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bernard,
"hooligan lights"! I've not heard a term like that for years! They were 'ned lights' where I come from, but the idea is the same.

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 09-30-2002 10:40 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Pete, they were effective and sorted out the yobs, Teddy boys I think the rage was during the late 50s - 60s. I should have mentioned that they were mostly used only on the one day Sunday old double features, which attracted the bad element.


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-03-2002 06:30 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the comments... light meters for this application don't seem too expensive, so I'll probably get one.

Removing the slide projectors is not an option! They do generate serious $$, and no one (especially now) are going to give that up.

"Hooligan lights" - I liked that too... along with the "eight foot candles." Now, was that: eight candles, one foot high, or was it ...

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