Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Mystery Eastman Kodak product - Thorium Chloranilate

   
Author Topic: Mystery Eastman Kodak product - Thorium Chloranilate
John Schulien
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-04-2002 12:57 PM      Profile for John Schulien   Email John Schulien   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm looking at a small, clean, empty bottle labelled:

EASTMAN

Thorium Chloranilate

(O:C6Cl2O2:O)2Th.3H2O ... MW 700.01
For Chemical Purposes. Not For Drug Use
Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY.

Rarely do I run across something that produces zero google hits,
but this is an example. Since Google struck out, I'm calling out the heavy guns and presenting the question to film-tech's far more powerful resident search engine :

What the devil was this stuff used for?

Barium Chloranilate is used to detect and quantify sulphate contamination, so I suspect that it's something along those lines.


 |  IP: Logged

Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 10-07-2002 01:18 PM      Profile for Sam Hunter   Email Sam Hunter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Try this website. http://www.chembuyersguide.com/index.htm

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-07-2002 01:52 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gotta get the name right first:

THORIUM CHLOROANILATE

The EASTMAN Chemical Company manufactures hundreds of Laboratory Chemicals, mostly used for university research, medicine, and by other industries:
http://www.eastman.com/Product_Information/Chemicals.asp

They have been a separate company from the Eastman Kodak Company since 1994:
http://www.eastman.com/About_Eastman/About_Eastman_Intro.asp

I suspect this may have been used as a radioactive tracer in research?
Where did you find the bottle? Have you been decontaminated yet?


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 |  IP: Logged

Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 10-07-2002 10:20 PM      Profile for Sam Hunter   Email Sam Hunter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
John you’ve contaminated me!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!

------------------
Samual Hunter Sr.


KC5ZSL


 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 10-08-2002 04:49 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As if that wasn't bad enough, uranium sulphate was routinely used as a tinting dye for release prints in silent film days. Archives and labs which regularly handle these elements tend to keep a Geiger-Müller meter on site.


 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-08-2002 07:29 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thorium compounds are sometimes added to optical glass to change its characteristics. That creates a small radiation hazard. Consider that the next time you put binoculars up to your eyes to ogle the neighbor girl.

 |  IP: Logged

John Schulien
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-08-2002 06:17 PM      Profile for John Schulien   Email John Schulien   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John --

I think the name is right. It's spelled that way on the bottle -- "chloranilate" -- and google returns a number of hits on this spelling, and much small number of hits on "chloroanilate."

I've had the bottle checked, and it isn't radioactive. I've washed my hands carefully each time I've touched it anyway, just in case.

Leo -- what color would Uranium Sulphate dye the film? Seems like a good thing to be aware of!

I have a book on dye transfer photography, where the author discusses soaking the receiver film in a dilute solution of Thorium Nitrate -- apparently Thorium is a superior dye mordant. This was done for still photography, but it makes me wonder if Technicolor ever used Thorium as a mordant. Any archivists/collectors want to check their collection with a geiger counter?


 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-08-2002 09:36 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My old IB printing information makes no mention of thorium nitrate. After the blank is processed and fixed (for the silver soundtrack and in the early days, a faint B&W "key" image") it was hardened in a chrome alum bath.

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 10-09-2002 02:55 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John S - it was an amber tint. The radiation in any surviving element now will probably have decayed so much that you're in far more danger breathing the air in an average urban street. But in one lab tour I had we had a demonstration with a G-M meter and it still got a slight reaction.

 |  IP: Logged

John Schulien
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-09-2002 01:43 PM      Profile for John Schulien   Email John Schulien   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's the information that I found:
http://www.dyetransfer.org/

On this page, you'll find a link to a PDF file describing James Browning's work in producing dye transfer prints from scratch. This PDF is absolutely fascinating. His work is very impressive. He manufactures matrix film from scratch -- he starts from uncoated polyester film mixes and coats the emulsions himself, exposes the matrices using a laser scanner, and hand-transfers the dyes. The PDF contains all of the chemical formulas and mixing directions for every step of the dye transfer process. This is highly recommended reading for anyone curious about the chemistry and process.

On page 8, we find:

quote:

If you don ’t have Kodak Dye Transfer paper,you will need to prepare your own paper.I have used Ilford MG FB F paper successfully.Fix and wash the paper completely. Mordant by soaking for 10 minutes in a
1% solution of Thorium Nitrate.You can try the M-1 mordant if you don't want to work with Thorium.

Kodak M-1 Mordanting Solution
Part A
Aluminum Sulfate 200 g
Water to 1 L

Part B
Sodium Carbonate 80 g
Water to 1 L

Mix one part B to one part A.Add B to A. ...


... which is where I made the connection between thorium compounds and film manufacture.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-09-2002 09:25 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fascinating. Now if we can only get this guy interested in motion picture work instead of just still prints.

 |  IP: Logged

David Koegel
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Alexandria, VA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-11-2002 09:56 AM      Profile for David Koegel   Email David Koegel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thorium is indeed radioactive, but is a very low emitter of radiation. Its half-life [the time it takes for 1/2 of a given amount of thorium to radioactively "decompose"] is very long (77,000 years), hence it's a very low radiation hazard. If you want related information written from the perspective of a radioactive cleanup company, see thorium

I believe it is thorium nitrate that is used in preparation of the "Welsbach mantle", used for portable gas lights [e.g., Coleman lanterns]. The mantles start off as a cloth impregnated with this chemical, with the cloth burning off when first used. The resulting mantles consist of thorium oxide (ThO2) with about 1% cerium oxide and other ingredients. They glow with a dazzling light when heated in a gas flame, as you may have noticed

From the bin of “you can never know too much about something,” thorium oxide has a melting point of 3300°C, the highest of all oxides. Only a few elements, such as tungsten, and a few compounds, such as tantalum carbide, have higher melting points. Even more fascinating information can be found at thorium facts

end of chemistry/physics lesson

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.