Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: CP500 and End show switch to Non-Sync

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Topic: CP500 and End show switch to Non-Sync

Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-13-2002 01:16 PM

Equipment:
Christie with FM35 Failsafe and 3Q automation. CAT-701 penthouse reader.

Problem: Upon signalling end cue (outboard), the system randomly fails to properly switch to non-sync. Sometime it does.

Initial observations: Upon receipt of the end cue, the system switched from Mode 10 (Digital) to Mode 05 (Stereo SR) and then switched back to Mode 10 again because of tail still in reader and reading good data. Tail falls through system and projector stops normally, but processor stays in Mode 05. Upon either pressing the end feature console button or flashing a piece of cue tape in front of the reader, the system pulses fine over to Mode 60 (Non-Sync).

I am thinking of adding a second end show piece of tape closer to the end of the tail but wanted your thoughts.

Thanks
Paul

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-13-2002 01:29 PM

Is it possible you have an Auto Digital feature programmed on the Non Sync? Automation pulses it into NS, Auto Digital takes you back to SR-D and finally digital failure takes you to SR. When the show ends in SR is it happily in SR or digital not ready SR?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-13-2002 01:48 PM

I think Steve's on to it. You need to make sure non-sync on the CP500 is not considered a "source" for auto digital. Alternatively if for whatever reason that does not work for you, just turn off the auto-digital and program your automation (or move the wire) so that digital is pulsed at the beginning of the trailers or feature (whichever you prefer).

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-13-2002 03:16 PM

Maybe your cue tape causes the reader to go blind on the digital track and so the processor reverts from Digital to SR at the moment it is supposed to switch to Non-Sync. So the N-S command coincides with and is overruled by the reversion to analogue.
Michael

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Jon Bartow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 287
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-13-2002 08:52 PM

Although not confirmed by Dolby, I have heard a rumor that this is a bug with at least one newer version of the software. It was also suggested with this rumor that re-loading the software would fix the problem.
I have a few CP-500's that for a few days every couple of months would not pulse to the NS just as Paul described. Every time for 18 months or so I reseated all of the cards on the 500 and the problem would go away only to reappear a few months later.
I tried reloading the software (ver 1.61) on one unit. So far it has been four months, no problems.
Like I said, unconfirmed by Dolby and as of yet only four months of proof by myself, but not very time consuming to do nor risky. Just be sure to download the settings before reloading the software or else it will be come VERY time-consuming

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-14-2002 07:20 PM

Are you using DTS?

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Bill Mantz
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 10-14-2002 10:21 PM

Hi
Paul
Have you tryed cleaning the cue detectors???
I know in the past the detectors can get very dirty and are often ignored on the daily cleaning of the Projectors, after that replace the cue. Adding another cue dosen't work ,also make sure the cue is long enoght some times I have seen the LED light up but not trigger the relay becase the signal was not long enoght.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-15-2002 10:50 PM

I don't think it has to do with dirty detectors as it doesn't use any visible or led light to detect the foil.

I have tried using a full length cue instead of a single frame thinking that the pulse wasn't long enough and that didn't help either.

Scott, no the processors are not stacked at the theatre, either Dolby or DTS but not both.

Brad, if it was a source, wouldn't there be a 's' in the display indicating that. I will check though.

Thanks to all, even you Bill.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-16-2002 12:31 AM

Paul, I still think it might be a momentary reversion to SR which is caused by the cue tape on the film. It does not necessarily have to happen every single time. One factor is the error rate at which the film plays right before the cue. If the CP500 has already counted a high number of errors, it will revert more readily. The easiest way to check this would be to remove the N-S command from the automation and observe what is happening. If the CP reverts or shows an F in the error rate display, you have your answer. The reversion will supersede the automation command.
Another possibility might be electric noise on the automation input. If I am not mistaken, there is a Dolby Field Bulletin on the subject.
Michael

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Shaun Flichel
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Regina, Sask., Canada
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 10-17-2002 02:13 AM

Another cause for this on some processors is the fact that when the change over closes and pulses the processor to format 60 (non-sync), the films with dolby digital and sdds have code until just befor tail out, so whats happening is the processor gets the non sync pulse, then the digital processor says ummm no, theres still code, and then pulses back into 10 until it loses code then reverts to 05. If it does this with the dolby digital unit, then simply wire the plug where the cat 700 or 701 plugs in to go dead when the change over closes, if its the older sdds processor, this is normal, although neither usually do it on the 500.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-17-2002 03:13 PM

It doesn`t really matter if there is still digital code on the film. If you hit Non-Sync on the CP500, it will switch to that format regardless of what is happening on the print.
The "older" SDDS processor - I assume you refer to the DFP-D2000 - doesn`t switch between digital and Non-Sync at all. It only switches between SDDS and the external input which usually comes from another cinema processor. If you have for instance a CP55 and a DFP-D2000, the automation would switch the CP to Non-Sync and the DFP would go on playing SDDS until the end of the film, then switch to external and play Non-Sync as it is coming from the CP.
Michael

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-18-2002 09:43 AM

Initial results with adding a second tail cue when the DD data runs out appears to be successful. If things change, I may continue to post results.

Thanks to all
Paul.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-20-2002 08:19 PM

If you are running v1.61 on your CP-500 then this is a "known" bug...I have confirmed in on different CP-500s using completely different automations.

A quick "downgrade" to V1.5 or the preferred 1.31 will make your problem go away.

If you are using surround-EX you will need to say with the last version of 1.5 ( I think it is 1.52 or 1.51)

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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