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Author Topic: Qsc Isa
Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-13-2002 06:35 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone.

A question: I found some ISA series ampli with the switch set to "STEREO" and "BRIDGE MONO". I found on the manual that to obtain the bridge mono I should have "PARALLEL INPUT" and "BRIDGE MONO" engaged. What is the difference?

More: What will happen if I connect a speaker on the bridge outputs, but the switches are set to "STEREO"?
I know the answer (blow the speaker) but why?

Last: what is the meaning on a tri-amped system to have a BRIDGED ISA 450 for each HF and just one channel of a ISA 750 for each LF enclosures??

Bye
Antonio

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-14-2002 02:08 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is what I understand with your question:

Both inputs are active. If you plug in a stereo source, the two inputs are combined. If the amplifier is strapped for Bridged Mono out, that is what you will have. A mono signal of the two combined inputs.

Mono output is across the two red output jacks.

The other two questions you have ... I don't know.


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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-14-2002 04:21 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To elaborate on Pauls' reply, if you are running in BRIDGE mode and the stereo/parallel switch is set to STEREO, the right input is ignored. Normally you wouldn't use the right input in bridge mode anyway, so it usually doesn't matter.

If you have a speaker connected in bridge configuration to an amp(using the L+ and R+ terminals), but the amp is set for non-bridge (stereo) operation, the speaker will reproduce the "difference" between the left and right stereo inputs. This will not damage the speakers, in fact it is known as a "Haffler Hookup" and has been used to get a crude surround signal when you don't have a surround decoder.

A tri-amped system needs 3 amplifiers. One for the LF driver, one for the MID driver and one for HF driver. I think what is meant by that statement is use a ISA450 amp in bridge mode for the MID driver, use another ISA450 amp in bridge mode for the HF driver and one channel of a ISA750 amp in non-bridge mode for the LF driver. I presume they are talking about a system using two LF drivers, so the other channel of the ISA750 would drive the second LF driver.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-14-2002 04:36 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray,
So having a subwoofer connected to an ISA set to STEREO and BRIDGE is ok.

And connect a speaker to BRIDGE outputs with an amp set to STEREO with just one input used is not meant to blow a speaker? So why we are blowing a MF driver a day... ??

Tri amp. Isn't it better to use one half for HF, one half for MF and one bridged for LF?

I don't think that one 450 bridged amp is so useful for a HF driver in a triamped system, what do you think?

Bye
Antonio

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-14-2002 04:52 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"So having a subwoofer connected to an ISA set to STEREO and BRIDGE is ok".

Yes, provided you are not using the right input.

"And connect a speaker to BRIDGE outputs with an amp set to STEREO with just one input used is not meant to blow a speaker? So why we are blowing a MF driver a day... ??"

Maybe you are driving the amp or speaker too hard.

"Tri amp. Isn't it better to use one half for HF, one half for MF and one bridged for LF?"

All you are doing is effectively reducing the power capability of the sytem. If you are not trying to blow the roof off, that would work.

"I don't think that one 450 bridged amp is so useful for a HF driver in a triamped system, what do you think?"

Depends on how much volume you are going for and the power handling ability of the HF driver. Assuming (and only assuming) an ISA450 produces something of the order of 900watts in bridge mode, not too many HF drivers will cope with that sort of power. So yes, one channel of a 450watt amp should be enough for the HF driver in a typical cinema system.


------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-14-2002 05:16 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did a quick check of the QSC website and an ISA450 does indeed produce 900watts (into an 8 ohm load) in bridge mode. In non-bridge mode this figure drops to 260watts per channel (8 ohms) and 425watts per channel (4 ohms). So I guess if you are running a system in a big room then running the IS450 in bridge mode for the upper drivers may be the way to go. Of course there are a large number of possibilities, but the normal rule of thumb (at least for general sound reinforcement applications) is to install LF systems with one and a half to two times the power capability of the mid and high systems.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-14-2002 05:32 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray,

Thanks for your help.

Yes, the system can work in this way but I believe that it could be assembled better.

The could use one channel of ISA750 for HF and MF and one bridged 750 for each LF. I dont' have the specs right now but it seems a bit adequate for me. And the cost of the system would be approx the same.

Oh, we are talking of KCS speakers.

Blown MF: I clearly heard that MF distorcing once. But not always. If connecting a MF speaker to the bridge outputs at a stereo amp is not a problem, the amp could be defective... Otherwise the speaker should always distorce...

Bye
Antonio

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 10-14-2002 05:52 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What model of KCS speaker?
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-14-2002 08:00 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really don't know! I didn't found a KCS website and we have 16 screen from 144 seats in biamped, to 500 seats in triamped. Why did you asked me? Is there something I should know?

Antonio

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 10-14-2002 08:49 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
KCS has a huge line of speakers some of which are a copy of JBL, Electro-Voice and other manufacturers in addition to their exclusive designs...they are typically built for price considerations.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-15-2002 01:36 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard,

Really? Does KCS has a Website?

Do you really think that the KCS are just copy of JBL, EV with just their design? I've heard their sound... They do not sound so well IMHO. They're fine but not comparable to JBL nor EV.
They're a bit harsh.

What do you think?

Bye
Antonio

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 10-15-2002 02:33 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
KCS has registered their name but the web-site is blank. KCS speakers are made for them by D.A.S. of Valencia, Spain. I have sold them in situations where a primary vendor was having a delivery problem but rarely. I have visited their Barcelona offices / workshops and they make other cinema items to go with the Cinemeccanica projectors / platters and Dolby processors they purchase to finish their packages.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-15-2002 03:37 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, but what do you think abouot KCS' sound quality?

Bye
antonio

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-16-2002 09:37 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was always impressed with the KCS speakers and never found them as harsh as say EV
I think there is porbably an EQ issue if they sound harsh

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-16-2002 08:15 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

I found the EQ almost good. I found the sound of KCS not comparable with JBL or EV. I do not believe that it is an EQ issue, but I can be wrong.

MF issue solved. Techs made the wrong settings to the crossover, the MF received 300Hz instead of 500!

Bye
Antonio

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