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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Author
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Topic: Cinemeccanica vs. Kinoton
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 11-05-2002 10:00 AM
Of those listed, the only one I'll comment on is the V5 vs the FP-30 (D or E)...the Kinoton slams the V5 in all performance and maintenance aspects. This isn't really a contest.Steve ------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
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Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-05-2002 04:55 PM
Cinemeccanica are very much a belt and braces machine. Very relaible and as has already been stated, easy to maintain and repair. Kinoton FP20's are also great in a different way. They need consumable spares on a regular basis, gates runners, skates and lay on pads. The Cinemeccanica range tends to run for years without replacing parts.The best non-rewind, in my opinion has to be the Kinoton ST200. It was the original and runs for years with little or no maintenance. In my theatre I took out four awful FP20's and replaced them with four Cinemeccanica Vic 8's running with Kinoton ST200 non-rewinds. The best few weeks work I've ever done. I wouldn't change them for anything!! Cost of spares is a real issue as they are both very expensive, in the UK at least.
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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 11-05-2002 07:54 PM
My first FP 30 will arrive about new year (can't wait), so i can't talk from personal experience on that one. -Closest to Kinoton in this house are my two children of heart, the DP 70's - 42 years old, and still both running perfect. Last month DP #2 followed #1, and got a renovated malthese-unit (Greg: 1.380 Euro for that one, You asked me once, long ago).
But i most certainly know, what i talk about, when the matter is Cinemec. -I learned on Victoria 8 - and knew no other projetors at that time. - Vic 8 is the best of the Italians (less bad), but far, far from DP70. I have been running sporadicly Victoria 10 (falling apart now and then) and Vic 5, and am on 7th year the owner of one Victoria 9. --Vic 10 was the only one with acceptable picture-steadyness. All other models does full justice to the nick-name "Rock and roll projectors". They need to be taken care of all the time to work, while as far as i'm told, the FP30 - just like the DP70 just run and run. My two ST 200 E platters are 5 and 6 years old, running just perfect. No doubt: Kinoton is a little more expensive, and worth every cent, so far. Attended a demo of the Barco/Kinoton digital cinema projector last friday in Lübeck, Germany. Impressed by sharpness - but contrast failed to convince, due to "print" quality, i was told.p.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 11-06-2002 03:18 AM
I'm with Peter and Ken on this. Maintenance and first-line repairs on a Vic 5 or 8 are very straightforward, and can be done by a competent projectionist with a little training and a lot of common sense. Assuming all other things to be equal (i.e. both machines are properly operated and maintained) Kinoton/Philips FPxx machines give a steadier picture and are certainly a lot kinder to older, shrunk and brittle acetate prints. I can't get over how little pressure those polyeurethane gate plates need, and have run worn-out prints through an FP which any other mech would have chewed up, eaten for breakfast and then spat out. But you really do need advanced mechanical skills to do maintenance jobs which are very straightforward on a Vic. Removing an intermittent sprocket is one obvious example.Also, another drawback with FPs (unless the situation has changed a lot in the last 2-3 years) is that routine spare parts are a lot more expensive. Not an issue for multiplexes, obviously, but for a venue showing silent films regularly I would always prefer a Vic because the shutter is easily changed and because the film path layout makes it possible to lace the film bypassing the sound pickup altogether, thus reducing print wear (especially with tinted and toned prints) and the risk of accidental damage. All the FPs I've used will go down to 18-19fps with only a very slight flicker, though.
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Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-06-2002 02:10 PM
I install what I'm asked to install.... plain and simple, but I don't belive I have re-installed the OFFENDING projectors. If they are where I think they are, Curzon Soho, they are performimg quite happily with smaller pictures and benefited from a lot of work done to them while at Stratford.... it should also be noted that the chief there is an ex engineer and has done a lot of work on them himself. Last time I saw them one had a very noticable picture jump. The install at Stratford of the FP20's was a disaster as you are fully aware. Picture quality and steadines was dire to say the least. To be fair it was a combination of lamphouse, projector, cheap short focal length len's and the fact that the equipment was not put back togeather very well after its refurbishment. In our smallest screen the front of the FP20 had to be filed away as the picture was so big as it came out of the lens it was cut by the edge of the projector. The first two rings on the lens holder also had to be cut away to allow the light out!! All of this on a 2k lamp. Quite simply they were NOT up to the job. Talk about pushing it to the limit. A lot of things were learned at Stratford and I trust, Peter, you will not make those mistakes again! The install of the Vic 8's however cured all of that and was done TOTALLY in house, one projector by Tom Pain and the other three by me. The only thing I would like is some new len's.... but we all have a wish list I'm sure. To be fair to the FP20 it can give excellent results, but trying to fill a 33' wide screen on a 16m throw with a 2k lamp using a standard silver mirror using crappy len's was too much for them. The len's used to get so hot you couldn't hold them after a few minutes!
When you then installed a 3k lamp in screen one in the same lamphouse it became a joke.... The lamphouses you specified were not up to the job. If the projectors had been purchased new then the equipment would have been 'properly' specified from the outset and we would not have had soooo many problems. The company I work for agreed with all of this which is why they spent so much money on a basically new install.... that worked! I like the FP20+ projectors but I prefere the Vic series, especially when they are installed well! Regards.
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